Bokeh Discussion

[Homunculus]

a few questions for you all

what lens mechanics create good bokeh? is it the leafs/blades of the iris? Is it simply the quantity of them or something else such as the quality? Is that all or does the actual glass have to do with the bokeh as well?

how many blades are in an average lens such as Canon FD lenses? How many in cinema glass?


which lenses have the best bokehs? Zeiss, leica, what?


I'm very satisfied with my Canon FD lenses but the one thing I don't like about them is the bokeh is not near top quality. it's way too sharp and not smooth/creamy/soft like the top lenses.

What's some good lenses that are not TOO expensive (let's say $500 range give or take a few hundred) that have good Bokeh?


thanks.

 

[PerroneFord]

what lens mechanics create good bokeh? is it the leafs/blades of the iris? Is it simply the quantity of them or something else such as the quality?

This is part of it.

Is that all or does the actual glass have to do with the bokeh as well?

Actual glass plays a large role as well.

how many blades are in an average lens such as Canon FD lenses?

Typically 6

How many in cinema glass?

14 or so.

which lenses have the best bokehs? Zeiss, leica, what?

Impossible to say. It's different lens to lens.

I'm very satisfied with my Canon FD lenses but the one thing I don't like about them is the bokeh is not near top quality. it's way too sharp and not smooth/creamy/soft like the top lenses.

Yep. One reason I don't use them.

What's some good lenses that are not TOO expensive (let's say $500 range give or take a few hundred) that have good Bokeh?

Very dependent lens to lens. I tend think that the Pentax Takumars have nice Bokeh in general. My vintage Nikons are beautiful as well. However, the best lens I have for bokeh is my Fujinon 55mm. Which came as a total surprise to me.

 

[Homunculus]

thanks perone very interesting have never heard of any of those (takumars, fujinon etc...) will look them up

 

[Homunculus]

i remember reading a paper on bokeh and it was interesting how they said that mathematically/scientifically a perfect lens would actually have perfetcly sharp bokeh outlining the iris blades or something like that whereas in art and film the opposite is true that the blurrier/smoother/softer the bokeh the better which means that engineers hvae to sort of go against the laws of nature to create the best lenses

 

[Homunculus]

i wish i could remember the new cine glass i saw demo'd on some video. they were bragging about 18 leaf iris. i wonder how the bokeh looks on that. must be crazy smooth

 

[TimurCivan]

Iris blades determine the shape. The quality of the bokeh comes from the quality of the glass.

It comes down to the design of the lens. Some lenses are supersharp, but have crap bokeh. Some of the russian lenses I have are screamingly sharp, but the bokeh looks like a muddy mess.

Canon L series lenses are designed to be sharp AND have "spherical" bokeh. They engineer them that way because in the still world, the bokeh is more visible cause them image is static. When the HDSLR was invented, suddenly that cartoonish baloon like canon bokeh was moving and looked like nothing else. I think its a big reason why dslr's got popular, because it wasn't just video, it looks like moving photography.

 

[Homunculus]

cool that was a nice explanation. yes i noticed when i shot on 5dmkii with L glass that the bokeh was particularly nice.

which russian lense are you referring to, LOMO? i don't know of any other kind I don't think.


how about this question

are there any low to medium level (price) lenses that have relatively low leaf count (6 petals) but still have nice bokeh?


I've seen the nikon 50 f/1.8 i think it was and it had such horrible bokeh. so sharp

 

[PerroneFord]

how about this question

are there any low to medium level (price) lenses that have relatively low leaf count (6 petals) but still have nice bokeh?

Nikon 300mm F4.5





Nikon 50mm F1.4 - Full Defocus



Nikon 50mm F1.4 - Partial Defocus



Fuji 55mm F1.8 - Full Defocus


Fuji 55mm F1.8 - Partial Defocus


Nikon 300mm = $150
Nikon 50mm = $99
Fuji 55mm = $40

 

[PerroneFord]

Note... shooting wide open eliminates the shape of the iris. This is another good reason to NOT buy the fastest glass all the time. Shooting wide open on a F2.5 or F3.5 lens, leaves the bokeh shape to the optics as long as you've got the light to pull it off. A set of 2.5-2.8 or even 1.8s can be VERY useful with some NDs in front of it.

 

[kostas]

how many blades are in an average lens such as Canon FD lenses?

In general more "premium" FD lenses (50mm f1.4, 35mm f2.0, L series etc. ) have 8 aperture blades. These give more circular shaped highlights in the out of focus area, by contrast to the hexagon patterns of 6-bladed apertures of more "economic" series of FD lenses.
As for the bokeh Timur said it all.
FD lenses are a good option IMHO because they give a nice cinematic picture (not ultra sharp but sharp enough) while keeping smooth out of focus areas, unlike the swirly-busy bokeh of Russian or East German glass (swirly bokeh due to optical "imperfections" of a lens is a matter of taste though and I usually find it interesting).

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Note... shooting wide open eliminates the shape of the iris. This is another good reason to NOT buy the fastest glass all the time. Shooting wide open on a F2.5 or F3.5 lens, leaves the bokeh shape to the optics as long as you've got the light to pull it off. A set of 2.5-2.8 or even 1.8s can be VERY useful with some NDs in front of it.

+1. I never realized this until a little while ago. A T/1.4 lens and a T/2.8 lens will both have relatively circular bokeh wide open. But if I want circular Bokeh and some kind of reasonable DoF... using the slower lens is actually better! The DoF won't be as shallow, which can effect the size of the bokeh but if I just use a longer focal length I can artificially get those CoC a bit bigger to where I like. You have to figure out what you are willing to give up and gain. Lot's of variables

 

[kgimedia]

I hate to do this because the price has already doubled on this glass but the Takumars can be inexpensive and beautiful. Here is a shot for the season. T2i 55mm f2 Super Takumar like Butta.