Blue Ray Vs HD-DVD
- Thread starter ifownlee41nite@mac.com
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ifownlee41nite@mac.com
Well-known member
Hpw much for the Wii? My son was hinting around about one.
ugafan
Looking for a woman
i don't know yet. i'm still undecided about what i want to do.
ifownlee41nite@mac.com
Well-known member
Hmmmmmm..
Hmmmmmm..
The balls rolling. The one thing I'm seeing in consumer based camcorders is the growth of HD units. The key word is CONSUMER. With prices dropping and more and more people becoming aware of HD quality its only a matter of time. And the 2009 digital change over is only going to push it. I was watching the local news the other night and at the end of the telecast a spokes person for the news station came on to explained the whole 2009 change over to digital and what it will mean to the average person. He continuously used the term HD. If thats not a sign for ya then I don't know what is.
Hmmmmmm..
The balls rolling. The one thing I'm seeing in consumer based camcorders is the growth of HD units. The key word is CONSUMER. With prices dropping and more and more people becoming aware of HD quality its only a matter of time. And the 2009 digital change over is only going to push it. I was watching the local news the other night and at the end of the telecast a spokes person for the news station came on to explained the whole 2009 change over to digital and what it will mean to the average person. He continuously used the term HD. If thats not a sign for ya then I don't know what is.
Barry_Green
Moderator
This whole "war" is laughable. It's like two fleas arguing over which one owns the dog. And the dog doesn't even know the fleas are there. (In this case, the fleas are Sony and Toshiba, and the dog is the consumer.)
This "war" isn't about quality, it isn't about capacity, it isn't about anything the consumer cares about -- it's about who gets to collect patent royalties (Sony or Toshiba) and what kind of anti-copying DRM the studios can enforce.
The consumer, by and large, doesn't care. Both blu-ray and HD-DVD are selling much more weakly than anyone forecast. They have high hopes for this holiday season because HD-DVD players are now under $200, but it just might be comical to see consumers continue to stay away in droves. Just this week a new NPD Group survey came out that shows that 65% of the consumers polled had no plans to ever buy either one! Just 10% said they were "extremely likely" to buy one of these players.
There's very little of benefit for the consumer in this issue. Sure some will want higher-quality movies, but the vast majority see no problem with their existing libraries.
The players were launched way too soon -- only about 30% of US households even have an HDTV of any type. And of those consumers, less than half of them (44%) are even watching any sort of HD programming. So you have maybe 14% of the market that has any interest in a high-def DVD type system. Sound like these players were launched a bit prematurely? I'd say so -- and they were launched that soon because of the desire on the part of the manufacturers to snack up on all the patent royalties that they anticipate occurring. Certainly not because the customer was demanding 'em!
Then you've got the studios, fairly evenly split; four back blu-ray exclusively, three back HD-DVD exclusively, and one is supporting both. How does that help the consumer?
Fact is, this is a product (from both companies) that is not in the consumer's interest, so those two fleas can continue arguing all day long about which one owns the dog, but the dog is taking no notice and, sooner or later, may scratch 'em off. I still expect something like Fi-OS downloading (a movie version of something like iTunes) or a cheap disc like HVD to knock both these blu-ray options on their patooties.
This "war" isn't about quality, it isn't about capacity, it isn't about anything the consumer cares about -- it's about who gets to collect patent royalties (Sony or Toshiba) and what kind of anti-copying DRM the studios can enforce.
The consumer, by and large, doesn't care. Both blu-ray and HD-DVD are selling much more weakly than anyone forecast. They have high hopes for this holiday season because HD-DVD players are now under $200, but it just might be comical to see consumers continue to stay away in droves. Just this week a new NPD Group survey came out that shows that 65% of the consumers polled had no plans to ever buy either one! Just 10% said they were "extremely likely" to buy one of these players.
There's very little of benefit for the consumer in this issue. Sure some will want higher-quality movies, but the vast majority see no problem with their existing libraries.
The players were launched way too soon -- only about 30% of US households even have an HDTV of any type. And of those consumers, less than half of them (44%) are even watching any sort of HD programming. So you have maybe 14% of the market that has any interest in a high-def DVD type system. Sound like these players were launched a bit prematurely? I'd say so -- and they were launched that soon because of the desire on the part of the manufacturers to snack up on all the patent royalties that they anticipate occurring. Certainly not because the customer was demanding 'em!
Then you've got the studios, fairly evenly split; four back blu-ray exclusively, three back HD-DVD exclusively, and one is supporting both. How does that help the consumer?
Fact is, this is a product (from both companies) that is not in the consumer's interest, so those two fleas can continue arguing all day long about which one owns the dog, but the dog is taking no notice and, sooner or later, may scratch 'em off. I still expect something like Fi-OS downloading (a movie version of something like iTunes) or a cheap disc like HVD to knock both these blu-ray options on their patooties.
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Jason Ramsey
Admin
I think it would be a while before we could expect high speed broadband acquisition to take the place of a solid media of some sort for delivery. At least in this country, and that is only b/c we are so much further behind the rest of the developed world when it comes to broadband, let alone fiber optic.
Things like HVD, for sure... but by and large, I don't think the consumer has the infrastructure in place or the comfort with the idea of 'internet' being how they acquire all their media.... It's still something to do on a computer for them. And, with monopoly phone companies suing cities who want to put in fiber optic and make it available to their residents..... it'll probably be a while before that infrastructure is in place widely enough to be expected to be any kind of viable alternative to a DVD disc or solid state media option of some type.
Thing that's great about fiber optic is that it could be widely popular in rural areas where there are no other broadband options other than satellite... like at my house.... (at least it is my understanding that) Nearly every house has fiber optic cable running right by it. All that is needed is for someone to make the necessary changes to the house wiring and bring the cable up to the house. Verizon has been eating that cost on the east coast at about 700 bucks per house and doing it for free.
About HD DVD and Bluray... I don't necessarily think it was too early... I only think it was too early b/c there are two people offering the same thing, which tends to make the consumer wary when it comes to things like DVD movies, CD music, etc, etc. Also, b/c they were so dang expensive for so long. Then, what Barry was saying about different companies supporting different formats.... that sucks for the consumer and all the more reason for them to stay away from it... Which one is going to have the movie that I want? But, if it was one High Definition disc, and the price was right, I bet the consumer would flock to it. If you build it they will come.
Later,
Jason
Things like HVD, for sure... but by and large, I don't think the consumer has the infrastructure in place or the comfort with the idea of 'internet' being how they acquire all their media.... It's still something to do on a computer for them. And, with monopoly phone companies suing cities who want to put in fiber optic and make it available to their residents..... it'll probably be a while before that infrastructure is in place widely enough to be expected to be any kind of viable alternative to a DVD disc or solid state media option of some type.
Thing that's great about fiber optic is that it could be widely popular in rural areas where there are no other broadband options other than satellite... like at my house.... (at least it is my understanding that) Nearly every house has fiber optic cable running right by it. All that is needed is for someone to make the necessary changes to the house wiring and bring the cable up to the house. Verizon has been eating that cost on the east coast at about 700 bucks per house and doing it for free.
About HD DVD and Bluray... I don't necessarily think it was too early... I only think it was too early b/c there are two people offering the same thing, which tends to make the consumer wary when it comes to things like DVD movies, CD music, etc, etc. Also, b/c they were so dang expensive for so long. Then, what Barry was saying about different companies supporting different formats.... that sucks for the consumer and all the more reason for them to stay away from it... Which one is going to have the movie that I want? But, if it was one High Definition disc, and the price was right, I bet the consumer would flock to it. If you build it they will come.
Later,
Jason
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I think your average consumer doesn't care if it's still delivered on a shinny platter.
The physiological aspect of going from "tape" to a shinny new techno disc helped fuel the switched to dvd's. With Blue Ray and HD it's just another shinny disc.
I also think your average consumer is so happy with the download convenience of itunes and the such that the price/convenience factor far outwieghs the "oh it looks/sounds so perfect" quality factor.
Again I'm talking about the masses and not those that really care.
The physiological aspect of going from "tape" to a shinny new techno disc helped fuel the switched to dvd's. With Blue Ray and HD it's just another shinny disc.
I also think your average consumer is so happy with the download convenience of itunes and the such that the price/convenience factor far outwieghs the "oh it looks/sounds so perfect" quality factor.
Again I'm talking about the masses and not those that really care.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
I think the special features and go anywhere on a disc, etc of DVD movies is what ultimately helped fuel it's success... not it's increased quality. It was convenience. Which, that part I agree. The consumer will buy convenience first, quality second on average.
iTunes and such like that is something doable for music. The files are relatively small and then the consumer can put it on their portable media playing device and have it anywhere, or hook it up to their big bad sound system... etc.
But, the bandwidth isn't there for movies. People will not be happy watching a 300 line res movie on their hdtv. They will care about the quality there. Plus, there is no convenience for the average consumer (yet) with downloadable streaming on a large scale, sit down at your tv and watch a movie on saturday night, b/c the bandwidth isn't there yet. Not in the U.S. anyways. It would take too long to download something of acceptable quality.
Later,
Jason
iTunes and such like that is something doable for music. The files are relatively small and then the consumer can put it on their portable media playing device and have it anywhere, or hook it up to their big bad sound system... etc.
But, the bandwidth isn't there for movies. People will not be happy watching a 300 line res movie on their hdtv. They will care about the quality there. Plus, there is no convenience for the average consumer (yet) with downloadable streaming on a large scale, sit down at your tv and watch a movie on saturday night, b/c the bandwidth isn't there yet. Not in the U.S. anyways. It would take too long to download something of acceptable quality.
Later,
Jason
ifownlee41nite@mac.com
Well-known member
Well I guess my question would be what's more important- the bandwidth that isn't there yet or the compression algorithm that hasn't been written/perfected yet? I assume that each one benifits from each other but when mp3's (or aac) sounded like crap itunes style convenience wouldn't even get by the masses even if it could be delivered quickly.
I wonder how many kids out there would just as soon watch a movie on their iphone as watch it on a 58" lcd......
I wonder how many kids out there would just as soon watch a movie on their iphone as watch it on a 58" lcd......
Dick Campbell
Veteran
I just jumped into the HD game with a 42" 1080p LCD and a Toshiba HDDVD player. The Toshiba would not play a commercial HDDVD or a FCP made HDDVD properly out of the box. I had to plug it into the router and found a firmware upgrade online. Then everything was OK.
In cruising the racks at Walmart, the local supermart, and Hollywood rentals, I was surprised to find that the selection for both Blu-Ray and HDDVD is very limited, and most of the titles are unappealing (to me). And yet Best Buy has splashy ads for all these new SD DVD releases. Blu-ray players are still $500 or more. I can see why this isn't catching on. And the more it gets away from plug-n-play, the less likely the average consumer will tolerate it. Maybe things will change after Feb 09, when the mindset changes, but who knows.
btw, I went with HDDVD because I can burn those disks on FCP for stuff I shoot on my HVX.
In cruising the racks at Walmart, the local supermart, and Hollywood rentals, I was surprised to find that the selection for both Blu-Ray and HDDVD is very limited, and most of the titles are unappealing (to me). And yet Best Buy has splashy ads for all these new SD DVD releases. Blu-ray players are still $500 or more. I can see why this isn't catching on. And the more it gets away from plug-n-play, the less likely the average consumer will tolerate it. Maybe things will change after Feb 09, when the mindset changes, but who knows.
btw, I went with HDDVD because I can burn those disks on FCP for stuff I shoot on my HVX.
traviscool
Well-known member
My biggest fear about digital media via iTunes and Amazon as the next major format is that the special features will suffer, that's almost a given. Unless companies figure out a way to include the directors commentary, making of ect. with a download I can't see myself embracing the technology.
Dick Campbell
Veteran
At least with iTunes, when I buy a song, I have it on my system, and I can burn it to CD, take it with me, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of Amazon movies, is that you cannot view them except on the machine you have registered and you must use their software, so there is no portability, and you are essentially only renting the movie for a time period, rather than owning. If I wanted to do that, I'd just rent from Blockbuster.