blown out windows

ugafan

ugafan

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i was thinking about getting some 1.2 neutral density gel to put on the windows. does anyone have any recommendations on what you've used in the past to solve this problem?
 
It's not always a problem that has to be solved as you put it. But when it is, ND 1.2 isn't a typical solution. For one thing, that's going to cut a huge amount of light coming into your set through said windows, including whatever HMI's you might have placed outside to augment the natural daylight. Usually it'll be something closer to .6. Also, in general, you'll probably want it to look like it's brighter outside than inside for a daytime scene. After all, that's nearly always the case in the real world. 1.2 could very well make it look equal or perhaps darker outside. There are a number of other solutions besides gels though, it all depends on the location and how you wish to light the scene.
 
Watch out for wind. If it's windy, you have to affix the ND directly to each pane of glass, or the ND will flutter and you will see it.
 
ND on windows is always a bit of a nightmare. If possible, I always try to bring up the ambient light level in the interior first to see if I can bring the exterior down into range. And if that's not possible, I often prefer to put white diffusion outside the windows rather than ND, so that at least the windows blow out nicely.
 
gel sample.jpg

There are a lot of solutions including ND gel. I usually put it on the inside, eliminating wind problems but accentuating reflections, which are usually are not a big problem until the sunlight starts to diminish. A polarizer usually solves the problem. When using tungsten lights you can also use CTO gel which not only reduces the light level but also corrects for tungsten. That is the case with the photo posted here.

Other solutions include waiting until the sun is on the opposite side of the building and raising the ambient light level inside. I've found the the more stops of latitude your camera has, the less problems with blown out windows.
 
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I ND windows when I don't want them to blow out but usually us .6ND, 1.2 is a lot. It works great if you can get in there the day before and take your time.
 
thanks so much for all the replies. has anyone here used the .6ND window grip?
 
I've seen grips spray repo 75 on the gels and use that to hold them to larger windows as well. Not sure what kind of clean up would be necessary, maybe mineral spirits.
 
My question to ugafan is what sort of feeling/mood are you trying to evoke in the scene you're lighting and what do you want the audience to see? Letting the windows blow out a bit isn't such a terrible thing when warranted...
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Other solutions include using window sheers &/or stretching nets outside the windows. On a documentary we pulled screens off windows we weren't seeing so we could double them up in the windows we did.
 
scorsesefan said:
My question to ugafan is what sort of feeling/mood are you trying to evoke in the scene you're lighting and what do you want the audience to see? Letting the windows blow out a bit isn't such a terrible thing when warranted...
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Totally true. But I'd say, you really do need to control the window exposure when there's talent in front of them as in the case of a car.
 
I see a lot of 1000H added to intentionally blow out the windows. And just dress them with sheers. Let this be an aesthetic rather than ideological choice. A nice curve toward blown out looks way better than too flat.

That said, it is nice to have detail outside. Use ND plexi or 85ND or just ND as needed. Or they have polarizer gels to control the blow out. Crazy!
 
ugafan said:
i was thinking about getting some 1.2 neutral density gel to put on the windows. does anyone have any recommendations on what you've used in the past to solve this problem?
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Do you have the option to go for more light on the inside?
 
scorsesefan said:
My question to ugafan is what sort of feeling/mood are you trying to evoke in the scene you're lighting and what do you want the audience to see? Letting the windows blow out a bit isn't such a terrible thing when warranted...
View attachment 100958
Click to expand...

This example made me laugh a little since all of the interiors of "The Shining" were shot on stage, so this wasn't so much letting the windows blow out as it was blowing out the windows on purpose! John Alcott's work on that film was just stunning--the windows in the great room of the hotel (where Jack has his typewriter) are beautifully exposed--and 100% artificial light.

I'll generally go with .6 or .9 for windows but I have done 1.2 for particularly reasons in the past. Yesterday I shot in a very narrow room with about six windows down one side and opted to leave them ungelled and push through from outside...but that was because I had an arsenal of large HMI at my disposal (18K, M90, two M40's and down from there) so our base was around a T8 at 800. In another circumstance, a smaller lighting package or a different look I may have gelled instead. Generally I like to avoid it when I can from a cost and workload/speed perspective.
 
I generally find ND 1.2 too heavy for docco work (where I don't get the benefit of a location scout prior to shooting) where I want to retain some ambiance in the location.
I've settled on ND 0.9, and I include a Joker 800 when possible shot through a frame of LEE 129 and another frame of 251, that usually gives me enough exposure in the room to hold detail out the windows.

If you can sit through the ad here's a sample: http://www.makers.com/diem-brown
 
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