iain.bason
Well-known member
De-mosaicing adds a lot of data, which would make it harder to achieve that 12:1 compression. I imagine that they're adjusting the pixel values to make a simple interpolation algorithm work well.
Blackmagic RAW -"The world’s fastest RAW format"
- Thread starter Ted Ramasola
- Start date
True, and the definition of raw is not deBayered, else it's uncompressed RGB right after deBayering. It would seem that de-noising/color-pre-filtering the raw data and storing a compressed form (wavelet, DCT, or machine-learning based) that will be reconstructed as raw would be the most efficient. Red's wavelet raw does 18:1, so BMD could do just fine with wavelet (DWT), or hybrid DWT-DCT at 12:1 (DWT or DWT-DCT seem most likely).
Thomas Smet
Veteran
What we do know is that BMD has stated they are doing pat of the processing in the camera. What that means we don’t yet know but we do kno that the cameras have been able to do a de-bayering in the past wh n recording ProRes so it makes sense they may be leveraging part of that to help reduce the load in post. What kills the performance of raw formats is not the color in post but that process of rebuilding the RGB values for every pixel.
You can perform that part of the process in camera and still have a clean image close to that of raw. Raw itself is an almost pointless thing as o have and what most of us are a father is in fact a pure RGB image like we had when we had 3 chip cameras. Raw today is only a thing because we moved to single sensor deigns. If we did have 3 chip cameras we could still have a pure unaltered RGB image that has zero camera image processing.
The only true advantage bayer sensor designs really have over a pure RGB DSP imageis the size is smaller because you basically use the bayer sensor as a form of image compression. 3 color channels crammed into the space of 1 color channel. To me the ultimate goal is to get to where a 3 chip design would get us and that’s a pure untouched 14 bit RGB image with no baked in profile or processing.
You can perform that part of the process in camera and still have a clean image close to that of raw. Raw itself is an almost pointless thing as o have and what most of us are a father is in fact a pure RGB image like we had when we had 3 chip cameras. Raw today is only a thing because we moved to single sensor deigns. If we did have 3 chip cameras we could still have a pure unaltered RGB image that has zero camera image processing.
The only true advantage bayer sensor designs really have over a pure RGB DSP imageis the size is smaller because you basically use the bayer sensor as a form of image compression. 3 color channels crammed into the space of 1 color channel. To me the ultimate goal is to get to where a 3 chip design would get us and that’s a pure untouched 14 bit RGB image with no baked in profile or processing.
cpreston
Veteran
Is the speed of decoding on the hardware end really an issue? ProRes RAW plays back just fine at 4K on my 5 year old Mac and neither Atomos or Apple claim any work is being done to speed up post processing while encoding. It is just a method of compressing the footage without going into the RGB space.
I wish someone was kind enought to explain to me the BlackMagic RAW in the simplest words for me to understand. It's too technical that I'm stupid (too bad).
And one question regarding the heat problem: BRAW forces the camera hardware to do alot of work than before, that can create heat problem too?
And one question regarding the heat problem: BRAW forces the camera hardware to do alot of work than before, that can create heat problem too?
I don't know the inner working of a camera but surely there has to be some internal demosaicing happening in camera anyway even when recording RAW so you can see the image on the EVF, Flip out screen and SDI outputs..... No?
Thus, the camera shouldn't be any more susceptible to overheating than before.
Thus, the camera shouldn't be any more susceptible to overheating than before.
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Alvise Tedesco
Well-known member
I'll reiterate (my) post #4 on this thread.
Does anyone know if FCPX will handle Braw thanks to third (smart) parties plugins, even if Apple didn't appreciate?
Does anyone know if FCPX will handle Braw thanks to third (smart) parties plugins, even if Apple didn't appreciate?
That might be a question for Apple.
But if Apple wants to keep people on FCPX so that they continue paying for FCPX dongles (aka Macs), then it absolutely WILL incorporate Braw.
Not doing so would encourage BMD camera users to rapidly migrate to Resolve, which frees them of the need for FCPX dongles as well as discouraging FCPX license sales to BMD camera users...
I'm surprised that BMD didn't just make a CinemaDNG processing card to help with the CDNG raw files.
Here is my guess... the sensor is more than 4k in size, so they are taking that larger size and processing it down to 4k which may have been the big bottleneck. Again just a wild guess and may not be valid at all.
I'm guessing the real reason for the 12:1 was to get it working on current SD cards and the lesser compressed stuff needs the faster Cfast cards or USB-C drive to record. If I were to buy one of these, I would just buy some USB-C drives and about 12 to 18 inch cables unless I really needed small. Doesn't someone make a mount to hold drives either under the camera (1/4-2 screw) or in the hot/cold shoe? The would let you use a shorter cable and keep things more compact.
As to other cameras, I would certainly hope that companies would adapt it, even if it was a paid option. JVC had a paid option for Sony XDCam EX on our HM700u cameras, then they brokered a better deal and released it for free in a firmware update.
Here is something that we haven't discussed about this new "raw" recording... Does it use fewer resources within the camera? In other words, if something like the Fuji cameras were struggling with the image processing, but had enough throughput to the card, could their video be improved with this "codec" (yes it is still an encode/decode of some kind)?
Here is my guess... the sensor is more than 4k in size, so they are taking that larger size and processing it down to 4k which may have been the big bottleneck. Again just a wild guess and may not be valid at all.
I'm guessing the real reason for the 12:1 was to get it working on current SD cards and the lesser compressed stuff needs the faster Cfast cards or USB-C drive to record. If I were to buy one of these, I would just buy some USB-C drives and about 12 to 18 inch cables unless I really needed small. Doesn't someone make a mount to hold drives either under the camera (1/4-2 screw) or in the hot/cold shoe? The would let you use a shorter cable and keep things more compact.
As to other cameras, I would certainly hope that companies would adapt it, even if it was a paid option. JVC had a paid option for Sony XDCam EX on our HM700u cameras, then they brokered a better deal and released it for free in a firmware update.
Here is something that we haven't discussed about this new "raw" recording... Does it use fewer resources within the camera? In other words, if something like the Fuji cameras were struggling with the image processing, but had enough throughput to the card, could their video be improved with this "codec" (yes it is still an encode/decode of some kind)?
Braw will probably entice more camera buyers
Very unlikely. But I'm still very curious about how the partial beBayering works.
I suspect that Braw will not be an option on very many hybrid cameras.
Gizmosgadget
Active member
I would be very surprised if Sony offered BRAW in their cameras. They generally don't take to kindly to supporting other codecs. They don't even offer Prores except for their higher end cameras and even then it's only HD. Canon is in the same boat. Panasonic doesn't have any type of RAW format to they might jump at the opportunity.
BRAW has other benefits over CDNG including having one file per clip rather than per frame. Makes transfer times quicker......BRAW is a far better option than an accelerator card.
I hope Kinefinity at other manufacturers adopt braw as an internal recording option in their cameras.
Someone should suggest this to JVC as well! Imagine how great a JVC LS200 might be with 4K braw internal?
When there are so so many other "raws" ("ProRes RAW, Canon RAWLite, Redcode RAW, etc.") then to "compete" against them*in the buzzword marketing world then BMD kinda had to include "raw" in their name as well.
Lots of RED shooters are already running their redcode files at similar levels of compression.
If braw becomes widely accepted across the industry, thanks to being used in more cameras, then that will also further cement in place BMD's place as an accepted industry standard. Be it their cameras or post tools.
Resolve is the dominant color grading suite out there, by a pretty large margin.