SJX
Veteran
How is the varicam LT shape different than F55 or venice?
Blackmagic Design Announces New URSA Mini Pro G2 Camera
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How is the varicam LT shape different than F55 or venice?
Run&Gun
Veteran
Sorry Mitch, but no. I spent over a month with an LT on demo and Panasonic dropped the ball. I’ll tell you the same thing I told one of your reps at the premier of the V35 at NAB five years ago, you should have ripped out the sensor block of the 2700, replaced it with the s35 chip, upgraded the God-awful even for when it was new flip-out LCD and you would have been there.
There’s a reason I won’t let my 2700’s go. Because they’re such a pleasure to shoot with. NOTHING I have laid my hands on or put on my shoulder since, including C series cameras, F55’s or Amira’s comes close. Picture quality aside, even the revered Amira, in comparison, is like driving a pick-up truck built in 1985 vs. a modern sports car.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
BRAW vs cDNG image detail comparisons are not looking great: BRAW destroys fine textures, even if you keep the bitrate unchanged by going to the highest quality available (link). Old tests looked a lot better than this, no idea what has changed. For the time being I'm keeping the old firmware on my p4k.
John Brawley
Well-known member
I use them extensively. About 30% of the shots you see on The Resident are shot using UMP or the P4K.
So far I’ve been shooting with them every single day of the current season. I’ve worn out two straps from the handles, and menu selector button has fallen off three of them. The hinge needs tightening occasionally, and we can do that ourselves (it’s a couple of screws). I’ve also had one LCD screen on a UMP start glitching in certain positions, something BMD were able to repair inside of two weeks.
I have five UMP bodies, and they’ve all been with me on TWO seasons of this show as well as Queen of the South as well as a Fox Pilot where the very well credentialed director emplastically chose it as the A camera in a blind test I organised for him (against DXL, Alexa and RED)
I’ve shots HUNDREDS of hours of dailies, many scenes using only these cameras and I’ve never lost a shot.
In that time I have lost a shot from an Alexa and a whole card from a RED. In prep I had to reject an Alexa because it was so green that it was disconcertingly far from matching the other Alexas.
I see constantly stories of these cameras overheating. They don’t.
Dropped frames (almost always using non-recommended media)
Corrupted frames (almost always bad copies from media and the OG clips are fine)
People complain they can’t black shade them without understanding that they DO have a black shade, it’s just not user triggered nor realising that Alexa uses the same approach and also doen’st have a black shade function.
People post bugs all the time that are simply operator error. My fav was the well known one... clips disappearing from playback...The camera only plays back clips shot in the current record codec settings...something that every BMD camera has done since day 1. But hey why not post a YouTube clip and perpetuate a myth that clips disappear.
Like RED, there’s an education about using a camera to get the best chance of success.
BMD have certainly had some mis steps. Shading issues, battery doors, supply !
But I use these cameras every day in a very high operational tempo space and by the end of each season, half my camera department have bought one. They’re as reliable as any other camera I’ve used in the last 5 years.
It’s called a G2. The second generation. Or iteration. The sensor has the same heritage, it’s just been clocked much faster and has a new and improved frame rates, a much shorter integration time (rolling shutter is very short now) and many other under the hood performance improvements on the hardware side.
The did the same think with the micro cinema camera ( compared to the OG pocket ) and the full size Ursa had a V2 sensor too.
It’s not a “new” camera, it’s more of a refresh of the Ursa Mini Pro. The base iso is the same and the look is very similar.
rob norton
Veteran
John, what do you think the main reason is for more big budget productions not taking on the UMP?
John Brawley
Well-known member
Mostly because few people are going to write a novel with an iPhone if they don’t have to.
There’s no question the image can look great but it doesn’t have the same degree of customisation the larger camera ecosystems have. The look around, the degree with which you address what information you display on the SDI outputs, the ability to have different information on different SDI outputs, the tight integration of lens meta data with focus pulling systems (like the WCU4)
I think you’ll find it gets used a great deal alongside “bigger” cameras and it’s a dirty secret for some.
I use them for a particular style of free form camera operating I like to call visual jazz. I often pair it with a macro lens and get very unusual improvised camera operating / shots using this rig.
https://flic.kr/p/2f5dQjT
SJX
Veteran
1. I said cinema. All you listed is TV?
2. I meant as main camera. I think any cheap camera been used for some shots mixed with real pro cameras before.
3. I said in regular base. I think only arri, red and sony are used in regular base in cinema. But even sony is not so much. Ursa is as cinema camera as GH5 is. GH5 is also used much in high end TV and as b or c camera in movies. But is no cinema camera.
:2vrolijk_08:
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SJX
Veteran
I'm sorry but this is a bit rich. Name dropping alexa? Should we try to guess ratio between defective Alexas and quality control ridden, failing, sent back, falling apart ursas? I say is in the 1000 ursas to 1 alexa. What do you think? Funny name dropping. As if one alexa problem justify all ursa known problems and BMD horrid quality issues. What I mean is it wasn't necessary mention alexa. It takes credit away from your post.
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SJX
Veteran
The truth is because nobody in big budget production trust ursa. Then because alexa makes better images. Then why use a cheaply built budget camera if you have money?
This is such a silly discussion you could say the same about almost any camera other than Arri that dominates this world, the UMP isn't aimed at big budget Hollywood - compare it to what else is around in its price range and you see it hits well above it weight.
And the 'unreliable' tag that everyone here quotes ad infinitum whenever they talk about a BM camera is just that, it's lazy, they're quoting somebody else, not from their own experience. BM reliability has improved hugely over the last few years, but it seems impossible to shift this perception (they admittedly created for themselves).
And the 'unreliable' tag that everyone here quotes ad infinitum whenever they talk about a BM camera is just that, it's lazy, they're quoting somebody else, not from their own experience. BM reliability has improved hugely over the last few years, but it seems impossible to shift this perception (they admittedly created for themselves).
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If I were needing to replace all the cameras where I work, I'd have to think and demo this new camera before making any firm purchasing decision. Lots of features for a low price. This would probably go up against FS5 due to price. For our students I would not even think of a DSLR workflow which really leaves the p4k out of the running.
John Brawley
Well-known member
OK, I’ll bite.
I speak from direct personal experience. I gave two examples of bad experiences that I HAVE HAD personally with the camera that everyone holds up as a gold standard. I can give you more, those are two recent ones for the CURRENT SEASON of the series I’m shooting right now. Interesting you didn’t care that I also said I’d had an even worse experience with RED...nor did you note the bad experiences I’ve had with BMD cameras.
You said they were unreliable without qualification. No examples. Just a list of problems without qualification. That’s an opinion.
Then you call me out for name dropping my own experiences ? For speaking to my own first hand experience ?
Your claim about reliability is really a claim about reputation. You said
This sounds like an unqualified opinion based on rumour and reading about others experience. If you of course want to list your direct personal experience of BMD camera ownership, renting or using the cameras on your own productions that can demonstrate an example of every claim you’ve made about their reliability then perhaps we can give your claim the credibility you think it deserves.
My post was first hand experience. Not just from a day or week of shooting. But from the last three years of nearly constant use across several network and cable episodic TV drama shows.
A bit rich....in first hand experience maybe...That’s my qualification for having an opinion....what’s yours mr SJX ?
JB
Having worked in TV all my life, I can say that there is damn little difference (in the end product) between high end TV productions and mid to high end cinema productions. Look at any of the modern (what I call) serialized cinema shows on the main networks and on Netflix, Hulu, etc. Some may not be as epic as Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, but some are certainly within that caliber. They are not running around with an ENG camera and 3 person crew and knocking out content in 4 hours to hit the news. Just trying to make the point that just because it is on "TV" doesn't mean that it is "low". We've past those times completely by a long time ago, like when they started using 35mm film (and larger) to shoot these serialized shows. It's just way harder because you are dealing with 10 hours of content for a season, and you need to keep the story arc going season after season (for some things).
Now all that said, how many of these are using BMD cameras as an A camera? Probably very few. Why? I can only guess which is the wrong thing to do. John may be speaking highly of the BMD gear because he uses it and it works for him, there could be other reasons but again we are guessing. What I'm certain of is that BMD cameras can make really good images, they have also had problems in the past and this new camera seems to have addressed a lot of those concerns (Black Hole Sun, IR contamination, etc.).
So, if I had the type of work that could use this new camera, would I buy it? All I can say is that I'd certainly give it a good test along with a few other cameras. It would be dumb to discount it based on rumor. No one camera is perfect, especially when you rent them. Some rental places are really good and keep things in tip top shape, others are not that particular. So you may indeed get an Arri camera that has a small issue, but their general rock solid reputation certainly precedes them which makes them a safe choice when you have million dollar production days. It's a hard road to get onto and BMD certainly has some fighting to go.
BMD has unreliable cameras is same title for company as bad color science for Sony cameras. No matter what they improve, people, mostly without any real life experience, will be saying this anyway.
My friend is using original BMCC since it came out without any problems.
And about cinema, there were some scenes in Mad Max Fury Road shot with BMCC.
My friend is using original BMCC since it came out without any problems.
And about cinema, there were some scenes in Mad Max Fury Road shot with BMCC.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
I think it's great that they push the envelope. They had a rocky start but consider what RED was like early on...? They have some reputation issues but their cameras are also feature packed and stretched to market limits on price. Doesn't excuse any issues of course, but the fact you can get what it offers at that price is something to celebrate. If they're not your thing, that's all good. They aren't my thing either. I've owned Canon's my whole life.
I think we can all agree that it's a great time for gear, where insane features are available at solid prices from every major brand. People on this forum used to fight until blue in the face about just a few camera models... now we can fight (or just go shoot something?) about dozens lol.
I think we can all agree that it's a great time for gear, where insane features are available at solid prices from every major brand. People on this forum used to fight until blue in the face about just a few camera models... now we can fight (or just go shoot something?) about dozens lol.
I'm on a boxing event this Saturday with all Sony cameras, I can make them look good. Would prefer Ikegami cameras, but you use what is on the truck, and this company has Sony. Not that much work to adjust color matrix and stuff, but probably won't go through all that since the colors are good as is. But this is "low" multicamera live TV so probably doesn't count. I'm V2 which means colors are not my primary concern, must match to V1 or he will do all the color adjustments, I'll work that out when I get there. https://box.live/us-boxing-tv-schedule/dazn/ Not sure which networks are taking it live, but I know Fox has a feed. I think it is only 10 cameras, some of them high frame rate capable and only HD at 1080i, so again "low" by many people's apparent standards.
Also "cheap" Sony cameras in our studio, no problems with getting them to look good with good flesh tones and colors. But super "low" because we only use 720/59.94p, it's enough to teach them how to frame 16:9.
Also "cheap" Sony cameras in our studio, no problems with getting them to look good with good flesh tones and colors. But super "low" because we only use 720/59.94p, it's enough to teach them how to frame 16:9.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Since the 5D era, most DP's working in episodic TV/features/commercials have a "little" camera they like to utilize for those times where size/speed/cost dictate the need. Handy to have for a stunt scene where you throw it on a sandbag or tuck it away somewhere for a bonus angle, or use to get a down and dirty grabber while the main unit cameras are tied up. Anecdotally, I'd say the most popular would be the Panasonic GH and Sony A7 series, with Canon and Nikon a little behind those. As I said earlier, I don't personally hear much about the BM's. I looked into them for a recent series, particularly the Micro Cinema and Micro Studio cameras to replace GoPros for driving work (but was ultimately unenthused by the lack of 4K on the Cinema vs the lack of log on the Studio). Interesting to read John Brawley's notes and perhaps at some point I'll look into testing the Ursa Mini.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I've requested a G2 review unit from BMD's PR firm, we'll see if they come through. I am prepared to be convinced if they'll loan it to me for a few weeks and I can shoot with it under a wide variety of conditions.
One of the keys to being enlightened is being open to change and open to being convinced of a different outcome than the one you have long standing beliefs about. Convince me BMD!
One of the keys to being enlightened is being open to change and open to being convinced of a different outcome than the one you have long standing beliefs about. Convince me BMD!