Other: BlackMagic Cinema camera!!!! 2.5k for 3k...

Yes this is no where near S16 size. It is right in between S16 and M4/3. It is it's own new class of Sensor size.

In terms of M4/3 FOV a 20mm becomes a 24mm and a 24mm becomes a 28mm. It is about 1.2x longer then M4/3 which is much larger then S16.
 
Postmaster said:
Just wrote an article about my thoughts, if someone is interested:

http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com...ema-camera-why-the-got-it-right-but-so-wrong/

Frank
Click to expand...

Wow! You have a lot of harsh words for a camera that very few have had a chance to use. I would suggest holding back trashing a camera you don't know until we actually get a chance to use it and see how well it all plays out. Just because you may not want to try things a different way doesn't mean the rest of the world has to.

I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion but I don't agree with most of your points in the article. I'm glad BM doesn't make us fit into a mold. We have had that for decades in Hollywood. I for one am happy there are those that try to do things a little different. Thats what separates revolutionary from just evolutionary.
 
Nuno Dias said:
Very, very good write up Frank.

And right there is why I think this camera as it is will never be used on a professional shoot... but at this price range, its the best camera out there. Also this being a cinema camera as they are selling it, with a tiny little sensor, and no PL mount... lame... Film stocks only very recently started to have a lot of latitude, because most films regarded as the pinnacle of cinematography were shot on old film stocks with about 5 to 7 stops of dynamic range... and that didn't stop nobody from doing films like The Godfather or Days of Heaven...

So, Raw capture, 2.5k and 13 stops for 3 grand is certainly a very, very good purchase, but its a stretch to call this a cinema camera.

Just sayin...
Click to expand...

So it's not a "cinema camera" because it doesn't tick EVERY box you think a cinema camera should possess?

Why are you trying so hard to be down on this camera? It boggles my mind.

Especially considering that before long there will probably be a PL s35 version.

What will you then find to complain about?
 
I have to agree with the people that are putting up the red flag on the members that are calling this a "non-professional cam". What makes a camera a Professional camera is who is using it and how they are using it. I know a lot of professionals (including myself) that use in some eyes "nonprofessional video Cameras" like basically every DSLR when comparing it to Alexa and Epic or even a Af100 or Fs100 (shoot a Dvx100). I think the BMCC is quite the camera for the price and will be great tool form many Pro shoots. Unless Pro shoots consist of only major blockbuster features...


Jon
 
Gary Huff said:
I don't know if this has been answered at all yet, but have you tried the Apple HDMI adapter to see if it worked with the Thunderbolt port?
Click to expand...

The Apple adapter connects HDMI to Mini DisplayPort. Mini DP uses the exact same connector as Thunderbolt and even shares some pins, but at best, it is only a subset of Thunderbolt.
 
Jon Neely said:
I have to agree with the people that are putting up the red flag on the members that are calling this a "non-professional cam". What makes a camera a Professional camera is who is using it and how they are using it. I know a lot of professionals (including myself) that use in some eyes "nonprofessional video Cameras" like basically every DSLR when comparing it to Alexa and Epic or even a Af100 or Fs100 (shoot a Dvx100). I think the BMCC is quite the camera for the price and will be great tool form many Pro shoots. Unless Pro shoots consist of only major blockbuster features...



Jon
Click to expand...

It's a beta product.
 
mail4joeg said:
I believe this page answers the question about whether it comes with an SSD. It doesn't. That leads into the next discussion: which SSD, what size, where to buy, best bang for the buck etc. Also any word on size limitations of the SSD?
Click to expand...

If you want to shoot 12 bit RAW (and who doesn't?), you can get some idea from looking on the BMD support site at the SSD FAQ for the Hyperdeck series. I'm sure that this list will change for the Cinema Camera, but be advised that some SSDs claim lightning fast write speeds, which are actually accomplished with technological "smoke and mirrors". I've been using Crucial 256GB C300 SSDs (the older model than the M4) and they work great (meaning, no dropped frames). Pretty much any 2.5" SSD will work in ProRes or DNxHD mode. You can test your existing stable of SSDs with the BMD Speedtest utility.
 
Postmaster said:
Just wrote an article about my thoughts, if someone is interested:

http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com...ema-camera-why-the-got-it-right-but-so-wrong/

Frank
Click to expand...
Good, balanced article as usual. One thing though:

Talking about “being open”. The SSDs must be MAC (HFS+) formated. All software I tried, to make my PC talk (and format) HFS+, seriously screwed up my system and the transfer was slower than with NTFS on the same hardware.
Click to expand...

What I did with the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 was to buy a SATA dock (mine is a VoyagerQ by newtechnology) and connect it via USB3. I used MacDrive 9, which is pretty painless under Win 7 x64 (technically and wallet-wise). The SSD is just a little slower as HFS+, than when it was NTFS formatted, but that's to be expected because of the extra layer imposed by MacDrive. But you should really only use the "portable" SSDs to copy files to another drive on the PC anyway. I think that BMD was gravitating towards Avid (DNxHD MXF) and FCP/Quicktime (MOV, both DNxHD and uncompressed) because that's how they perceived the market for the Hyperdeck series. They weren't thinking about the user base that relies on Sony Vegas Pro and Adobe CS on the PC. If they added using exFAT or NTFS, it might have raised the price of the Hyperdeck units to the point where the units were not competitive.
 
LoganMackay said:
Pretty much this. There have been movies in the last 5 years that have been nominated for an Oscar shot on 16mm. Do we even need to get into the fact that Avatar was shot on 2/3 sensor cameras?
Click to expand...

And at 1080p! Hard to argue against $2.8 BILLION Dollars! lol.
 
Zephyrnoid said:
No. HDMI is a dead end for constant in/out use. The HDSDI is far more durable ad less risk prone to damage.
I can;t even believe HDMI or USB for that matter, have gotten this far.
Click to expand...

Disagree. I connect and disconnect USB on my laptop 2 to 3 times a day EVERY day and I've NEVER had a port or connector go bad on ANY laptop I've owned since 2003.

I've attached and detached the HDMI on my FS100 over and over and NEVER had a problem with it. Same as with the DP1 and DP6 smallHD monitors.

On the 7D, I've had miniHDMI cables go bad, but the port is still working great and I've definitely plugged/unplugged hundreds and hundreds of times. And the miniHMDI is the worse thing ever, yet, it still has performed well for me.

And, get this, I've had an SDI cable go bad on me when I had an AF100. I've also had word clock cables go bad in the studio which use the same connector, for no reason, and they were NOT cheap cables.

I get that SDI is definitely a better connector overall, less connection points to deal with and locking, but I really don't put a lot of effort into the HDMI cable on the FS100 and I have ZERO problems. I use an angle connector to run it down out of the back.

I'd prefer SDI any day, but my use of HDMI and USB is pretty extensive and I can't argue with myself that it works and has worked for me over many years with ZERO issues. Maybe I'm just naturally more careful and don't realize it.
 
Nuno Dias said:
Very, very good write up Frank.

And right there is why I think this camera as it is will never be used on a professional shoot... but at this price range, its the best camera out there. Also this being a cinema camera as they are selling it, with a tiny little sensor, and no PL mount... lame... Film stocks only very recently started to have a lot of latitude, because most films regarded as the pinnacle of cinematography were shot on old film stocks with about 5 to 7 stops of dynamic range... and that didn't stop nobody from doing films like The Godfather or Days of Heaven...

So, Raw capture, 2.5k and 13 stops for 3 grand is certainly a very, very good purchase, but its a stretch to call this a cinema camera.

Just sayin...
Click to expand...

This is digital cinema, plain and simple. You're splitting hairs and it seems silly.
 
For my own use, I cooked up a spreadsheet comparing lenses among different format cameras. I've included a PDF at the bottom of this post. Comments are appreciated, especially if you find a typo or a calculation error.

A hat tip to Barry Green, whose original comparison chart for the AF100 inspired me.

This table is based on calculating the focal length based on the given AOV and sensor diagonal using a little trig. The formula to calculate AOV is available from many sources, and I just had to unfold it to solve for a different variable.

Mostly this is useful for ballparking the lens equivalency. If you like using an 85mm lens on a 5D, you can see the approximate focal lengths needed by the other cameras to get the same AOV.

Ballparking is the key concept here. The AOV is in integers, the focal lengths are rounded to whole numbers, and the sensor sizes have been reported with varying degrees of accuracy.

Please do not waste pixels explaining how the calculations could be more precise. It would be like measuring pizza slices with a micrometer. Just use it for what it is: a quick way to approximate which lenses you're going to need using a different camera.

Enjoy!

View attachment BMD Cinema Camera Comparison.pdf
 
Thomas Smet said:
Wow! You have a lot of harsh words for a camera that very few have had a chance to use. I would suggest holding back trashing a camera you don't know until we actually get a chance to use it and see how well it all plays out. Just because you may not want to try things a different way doesn't mean the rest of the world has to.

I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion but I don't agree with most of your points in the article. I'm glad BM doesn't make us fit into a mold. We have had that for decades in Hollywood. I for one am happy there are those that try to do things a little different. Thats what separates revolutionary from just evolutionary.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are harsh at all, they are balanced and they make a lot of sense. The things that Frank wrote about that he didn't care for as much ARE known. I mean, maybe they'll switch the cables to the other side, but I probably doubt it. Maybe they'll add some more buttons, but I probably doubt it. There are many strange design decisions that people have pointed out they don't like, but, I think everyone also realizes, this is their first camera, and WOW what an offering.

Just because something is different doesn't mean you can't easily see that it isn't always better. Just because you changed something doesn't mean it is evolutionary OR revolutionary. Frank is making good points for people to consider and at least think about BEFORE they invest in the camera. Some things work really well and many times, people THINK they are being revolutionary by doing it differently and end up making it more work. Sometimes things staying the same that 100 years of trial and error make sense, sometimes they don't, it's never always black and white. For me, it's also educational to listen to other professionals talk about what they don't like as much because I learn things I sometimes don't consider. I *NEVER* thought about the cable locations, and you know what, Frank is right, I am perplexed by that as well if someone wants to use the camera in a traditional on the right shoulder setup.

And thunderbolt, I found that odd as well at first, but, if I look forward, NO macs have USB3 on them. There is NO plan to get USB3 on them built in. PCs are getting thunderbolt. Ergo, looking down the road, it looks like thunderbolt is going to be the choice. Also, Thunderbolt is 10 Gbps whereas USB3 is 5Gbps. Lastly, thunderbolt is both LightPipe technology AND display port technology in one. Who knows what they have planned there.

Like many people, what I like about Frank's approach to writing about it is this, with all these things that are going to add some challenges, it doesn't matter, I will probably still end up with one because it does do some really great things it looks like, and in those areas, it looks like it might excel VERY well. And for me, that's kinda the craziness of this camera. With all the positives and the negatives, the positives win out. Granted, this is NOT the final product, so I still reserve judgement till they get further along.

It's just really refreshing to see so many people excited AND able to discuss the pluses and negatives, and still be excited in the end. I think for a lot of people it comes down to this:

"Wow, I've never had 12-bit raw at 2.5k, I can't wait to put that in my NLE and DESTROY it with MASSIVE grading, MUAHHAHA!"

At least, that's what I am thinking :)
 
PopcornFlix said:
For my own use, I cooked up a spreadsheet comparing lenses among different format cameras. I've included a PDF at the bottom of this post. Comments are appreciated, especially if you find a typo or a calculation error.

A hat tip to Barry Green, whose original comparison chart for the AF100 inspired me.

This table is based on calculating the focal length based on the given AOV and sensor diagonal using a little trig. The formula to calculate AOV is available from many sources, and I just had to unfold it to solve for a different variable.

Mostly this is useful for ballparking the lens equivalency. If you like using an 85mm lens on a 5D, you can see the approximate focal lengths needed by the other cameras to get the same AOV.

Ballparking is the key concept here. The AOV is in integers, the focal lengths are rounded to whole numbers, and the sensor sizes have been reported with varying degrees of accuracy.

Please do not waste pixels explaining how the calculations could be more precise. It would be like measuring pizza slices with a micrometer. Just use it for what it is: a quick way to approximate which lenses you're going to need using a different camera.

Enjoy!

View attachment 52252
Click to expand...

I took the lens off thinking that would be 0mm lens, but the image didn't look good. What should I do? I want 180 degree angle? Hehe...sorry, couldn't resist. And great contribution!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top