Bitter satire from an old sound mixer. You should probably just skip it.

D

dave edgar

Member
I couldn't help myself, this is not directed toward anyone, it is just the ravings of a semi bitter old sound mixer / filmmaker who gets a chuckle at times from things he shouldn't. If anyone is offended by this, I'm sorry, but not sorry enough that it will bother me if you slam me so I wouldn't bother : )

I call this "My new profession"

Well, after years as a sound mixer/filmmaker, I have decided to make a change. I am going to become a race car driver. The problem is I need a little help. The only car I have is a 1979 Ford Maverick, but I’m sure if I buy a few really cheap accessories I can make it run like a formula one. Do any of you guys know where I can get a motor like a real race car has for less than $100? I am sure B and H has them somewhere but I can’t find them on their website. I am also going to get a RedLettusRock25 brand spoiler, I am assured that this will make my car look and run like a new one. My cousin knew a guy that did this and he is rich now.
I am going to race in all the biggest races, so if you help me now you are getting in on the ground floor. I will remember you when I am standing in that winner’s circle. You and old what’s-his-name (?) that gave me the free tires. Anyway, as I said I am going to race in all the biggest races and I am going to need some crew. I am going to find some mechanics who can’t afford mechanic school yet but who REALLY want to work on a real race car, and I am going to let them fix up my car. After that first race I will be able to give them more than a cool T-shirt I designed with my name on it and cold pizza. Better yet, maybe I can find some new mechanic-school graduates who can’t get a job yet and want to hone their craft a bit. At least they will probably have their own tools I can borrow.
Someone told me I might need insurance for this, but I didn’t budget for that so we’ll get it on the next one.
Do you guys know if the $1.99 fuel boost additive works just as well as the $6 bottle?
So that’s my plan, can any of you guys out there who’ve done this give me any pointers? I can’t afford school right now and I don’t have time to read the 5 million posts on the race car driver board and 800,000 pages of advice already out there on the internet, so can all you veteran race car drivers just please tell me how and help me or something? I’m really committed to this and I’m really good at it, all my friends say so.
So get on board soon and answer my questions, I am in a hurry because I heard that there is a big race in Indianapolis coming up soon and want to enter it. Did I mention I was going to all the biggest races?
I also need some red paint, I hear that all the best race cars are red now, and I want a red one, too.
Also, does anybody know when the DMV is open?
I have to get that little book that will help me study for my driver’s license.
 
That's funny.. and true... just read Craigslist...and even bleeding over to Mandy.com
So many people with new 'dinky cams' that give a good image think that will make a movie and also think sound gear has dropped in price as well along with the rest of the gear.... AND CREW AS WELL!!.....and should join in for the good of the project.... without experience directing.....and are just plan rude people to begin with.
This is an expensive craft... and if you haven't taken the time and years for training/learning and don't have money.. stay out of it!!!
 
BRH said:
This is an expensive craft...
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm always amazed when I open up 'audio' products and find that there are about $10 worth of 'actual parts', and the 'box' is sold for $100's... ok, maybe $20 for 'pro' equipment.

Or in other cases, where the manufacturer stays with an old design, repackages with new 'penstriping', and new increased price...

Or, the exact same 'circuit' with optional jumpers (or these days some FPGA) to allow for incredibly 'cheap' feature selection that sell for incredibly higher prices...

and if you haven't taken the time and years for training/learning and don't have money.. stay out of it!!!
Click to expand...

Yes, having gotten into the 'jargon' argument... keeping up a set of jargon that was developed before modern signal processing instruction became wide spread, does keep the 'priestly class' going for years... look at the use of Latin in the Catholic Church... ok, just in the last 30 years, has Latin fallen out of favor even in that organization...

So, yeah, high priced equipment, use of obscure jaron that requires years of learning... maintains the heiratic qualities of 'the art'...

There is of course one area that I will grant takes time... ear training... and necessarily presupposes... hearing... and with ear training, learning to 'composite' in sound is something I will grant takes years... but that has nothing to do with 'equipment'... or the price thereof...

As for the OP's satire... few of those friends of my youth, who were in to racing, started out with Daddy paying for the an expensive european import... most of my friends started out with beaters that they worked on, often in their front yard (we didn't have no stinking CC&R's in our neighborhood...) or did small repair on the kitchen table... there is a fond nostalgia for pork ribs laced with a bouquet of gasoline, axel grease and industrial grade solvents...

But the point is they start with pieces of shi*, and work their way to the big time... chronic alcoholism, or dead... depending...


In my case, I was not into race cars, but did spend quite a bit of time learning to play the piano from a set of 78 records of 'famous pianists', and an out of tune old piano that someone had 'just given' my mother... when I actually played on a in tune piano, things definitely sounded better... but I would not have been able to play, had I not taken what was available to me, crappy though it may have been...
 
Last edited:
dave edgar said:
I also need some red paint, I hear that all the best race cars are red now, and I want a red one, too.
Click to expand...

lmao!

Good stuff dave.

btw- j1clark@edu I'll assume you haven't been around in this biz since the dawn of digital. Your little box of parts that cost $100... used to cost $100,000 and take up a whole room. You have no idea how far we have come from "So, yeah, high priced equipment, use of obscure jaron that requires years of learning... maintains the heiratic qualities of 'the art'..."

Much of our equipment costs like 5% of what it used to cost. You can find 800,000 posts with information now for free, try learning something before the internet came along... heh.

Kids today have no idea how much harder and more unattainable a position in this industry used to be.

Oh, and about the jargon... yea it's a great way to tell an experienced engineer from a noob. One day you'll know the jargon and appreciate it.
 
Jockomo said:
lmao!

Good stuff dave.

btw- j1clark@edu I'll assume you haven't been around in this biz since the dawn of digital. Your little box of parts that cost $100... used to cost $100,000 and take up a whole room. You have no idea how far we have come from "So, yeah, high priced equipment,
Click to expand...

The last time I looked at an audio circuit, at least in terms of analyzing the thing, and not just 'counting parts', was when someone bandied about a 'stasis' amp, as the next best thing in sliced amps... so, sure, turning off a transistor suppying current, turning on a transistor to sink current, caused a 'little distortion at at the crossover point'... so supplying constant current would eliminate that problem... but anyway... I didn't have much call for looking at things audio since, as this is about a 30 year old recollection of Mr. Pass' design... who apparently does support the idea of DIY audio... with perhaps a couple of years of training/learning...
 
The parts have little to do with it.
Its the countless man hours put into the design, the $ spent on marketing, delivery, the final amount that is predicted to be sold...etc.

Why does bottled water cost the same as a pepsi? Same reasoning.
 
Dave I haven't seen you this bitter since you and Winter broke up the band.




Really there's a mix of posters on here... and sure, there are some dudes that think they're going to record features for next to nothing... but there are also a majority more guys that realistically hope to make top 10 in a DVX fest... and they simply call it Hollywood filmmaking.

So... if a guy says he wants the best race car money can buy... and then quickly follows that up with A) a budget... and B) "I plan to race at the local dirt track"... even though yes, he DID just say he wanted the best race car money can buy... I read between the lines and don't push him to an F1 that he can't afford... but rather, tell him how to fix up that old camaro and paint some numbers on it :)

I say this all the time... and I see it all the time on here... people quickly lose perspective of the original posters circumstances.

If you can forgive a little human ignorance... and yes, I know that's hard... but people rarely want what they just literally ASKED for.

"We want your very best home theater!"...

"Come with me in the back room please..."

"What!? Fifty thousand dollars!... err, um... I meant we want a $5,000 TV and we want to strap it to our camera so we don't have to hire a sound guy."

*paraphrased... I'm laughing my ass off right now... but you get my point... more or less. If people are DETERMINED to be stupid... I let 'em... but if they simply don't realize what they're asking for I'll forgive a little human ignorance.
 
Rippie said:
The parts have little to do with it.
Its the countless man hours put into the design, the $ spent on marketing, delivery, the final amount that is predicted to be sold...etc.

Why does bottled water cost the same as a pepsi? Same reasoning.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of engineering costs. I'm also well aware that engineering in most companies, especially for 'new product design' is often a few percentage points of the over all company budget, and the first to go when recession strikes.

I drink tap water, unless the location indicates otherwise, then boiling and adding chlorine is indicated.

Did you happen to catch the shot on "Slumdog Millionaire"(2008), where the boys are working in the back of a restaurant, and there's a fellow using Superglue to seal the caps of 'fresh' bottles of water... now that's what I talk about, that's real 'engineering'... give the customer what they want, for as cheap as possible, and minimal effort...
 
brilliant logic (please note the sarcasm)
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I'm well aware of engineering costs. I'm also well aware that engineering in most companies, especially for 'new product design' is often a few percentage points of the over all company budget.

I drink tap water, unless the location indicates otherwise, then boiling and adding chlorine is indicated.

Did you happen to catch the shot on "Slumdog Millionaire"(2008), where the boys are working in the back of a restaurant, and there's a fellow using Superglue to cap up 'fresh' bottles of water... now that's what I talk about, that's real 'engineering'... give the customer what they want, for as cheap as possible, and minimal effort...
Click to expand...
 
MattinSTL said:
Dave I haven't seen you this bitter since you and Winter broke up the band.




Really there's a mix of posters on here... and sure, there are some dudes that think they're going to record features for next to nothing... but there are also a majority more guys that realistically hope to make top 10 in a DVX fest... and they simply call it Hollywood filmmaking.

So... if a guy says he wants the best race car money can buy... and then quickly follows that up with A) a budget... and B) "I plan to race at the local dirt track"... even though yes, he DID just say he wanted the best race car money can buy... I read between the lines and don't push him to an F1 that he can't afford... but rather, tell him how to fix up that old camaro and paint some numbers on it :)

I say this all the time... and I see it all the time on here... people quickly lose perspective of the original posters circumstances.

If you can forgive a little human ignorance... and yes, I know that's hard... but people rarely want what they just literally ASKED for.

"We want your very best home theater!"...

"Come with me in the back room please..."

"What!? Fifty thousand dollars!... err, um... I meant we want a $5,000 TV and we want to strap it to our camera so we don't have to hire a sound guy."

*paraphrased... I'm laughing my ass off right now... but you get my point... more or less. If people are DETERMINED to be stupid... I let 'em... but if they simply don't realize what they're asking for I'll forgive a little human ignorance.
Click to expand...

Hey Matt.

Well, Jonny kept taking all the peroxide . . .

No, I understand what you are saying, I think, but the post does cover the ignorance factor of those who either (a) post without bothering to search for info, or (b) just refuse to try to find out.

I teach at 2 local colleges, I encourage dreamers every day, I was just trying to point out how ridiculous some ouf our conversations sound when applied to other professions. Post my post on a real job board equivalent and it would be written off as the work of a loon, but in film it happens multiple times a day and is accepted, and sometimes encouraged. Unfortunately, then, I am the one who who tries to shoot a film somewhere directly after Cecil B. Demented has come through and trashed free locations, bummed free food from the restaurants, tried to sleep with all the daughters and broke all the permit laws.

But we're not dealing with the home theater buyer, most of these people have been told the price of things, and why it costs so much, and they just don't care or think it doesn't apply to them. There is a big discussion going on now on the RED user forum sound section where a bunch of newbies are arguing that the RED sound is actually fine for features, and that those of us espousing double system sound are just "film dinosours" who can't accept that you don't need a mixer or decent pre-amps anymore, just the magical RED and a cheap electret condenser and let the camera man ride gain with no headphones and why should I pay you the sound will be great. I haven't gotten sucked into that one yet but it is a case of people who know very little about what they are talking about acting as if they know all and we are just a bunch of dummies for spending $2000 on that Schoeps. Don't we KNOW that the AT835 is JUST AS GOOD and you can mount it on the camera and you don't need a boom guy either it is great. The arrogance of the young to assume that we have been doing it wrong all these years and we are so stupid, they can show us how if they can just get a free crew to work for them and let them borrow some stuff. Oh well, I kind of actually like that film can encourage this kind of dreamer, but it really gets tedious seeing the same kinds of these posts day after day on 10 different message boards and Craigslist.

well , I have already typed more than this was worth, I was just trying to have some fun on a Tuesday morning in humidity hell. That is all.
 
dave edgar said:
I teach at 2 local colleges, I encourage dreamers every day, I was just trying to point out how ridiculous some ouf our conversations sound when applied to other professions. Post my post on a real job board equivalent and it would be written off as the work of a loon, but in film it happens multiple times a day and is accepted, and sometimes encouraged. Unfortunately, then, I am the one who who tries to shoot a film somewhere directly after Cecil B. Demented has come through and trashed free locations, bummed free food from the restaurants, tried to sleep with all the daughters and broke all the permit laws.
Click to expand...


This is a new phenomenon???

Back when I had dreams, I would visit my friends who could afford UCLA, and could afford 'making films'... who were they all agaga over... Ed Wood... you f*king got to be kidding me... work for Roger Corman... B-movies... oh parish the thought... but as it turns out, I have yet to see any of those friend's names in IMDB (perhaps they all had sex changes and I just don't recognize them...)... whereas a number of 'graduates' from the Corman school of low budget crapola films, came into the big time... (not that I had any connection to Corman or others... just my friends were pretty f*king snooty about making 'real' films...) and of course not to mention that to make a short in 'camera verte' style cost a f*king pile of money...
(Even more disappointing, I didn't even get sloppy seconds from their casting couch leavings... who needs friends...)
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I'm well aware of engineering costs. I'm also well aware that engineering in most companies, especially for 'new product design' is often a few percentage points of the over all company budget, and the first to go when recession strikes.
Click to expand...

That would imply that companies fire all their engineers first when money is short. That's not the case in any company that I've ever heard of.

They generally scale down pretty evenly across all departments when they have to.

But just what I gathered from your post... Your ideal company is one that designs a product, then moves production to China for cheap labor, doesn't monitor quality, doesn't tell anyone about it, doesn't fix any products that break or malfunction, and then creates new products but without doing research to find out what people liked or disliked about their old products?

A company that did that could make stuff for just above the raw costs.
 
i1clark... I don't know what to make of that (I can't tell where you're going with that... upset, agreeing... don't know)...

D.E. maybe I posted too soon... I didn't mean to take the comedy out of your satire... 'cause yeah, I understand.

In STL there was a video circulating our local online film community (which I get emails from but don't participate in much)... did you see the video where all businesses are dealing with the kind of film crap that film producers deal with? Basically it shows people at a restaurant, or getting a hair cut, or whatever... and the customer is always trying to get full quality for nothing.

The thing that I found so ironic about this... is most of the people circulating this video and saying "man don't you hate this" are the same people that PERPETUATE IT.

I handled that the way I handle some of those type of posts on the forums... when people are as you describe in your original post... I ignore them!

I suggest you let those people find out for themselves... part of the privilege of being a seasoned professional is you get to choose between helping people by sharing your experience... ignoring them and let them flounder until they find help elsewhere... or laugh at their stupid mistakes.

The attitude of the person asking me a question is how I decide which response they'll get :)
 
MattinSTL said:
"We want your very best home theater!"...

"Come with me in the back room please..."

"What!? Fifty thousand dollars!... err, um... I meant we want a $5,000 TV and we want to strap it to our camera so we don't have to hire a sound guy."
Click to expand...

$50,000 for the best? For the cables maybe... but if you want the best you need to start aiming at ~$5,000,000 and you can reach something like this...
:beer:

awesome-home-theater-kipnis-2.jpg
 
I'll bet you $10 the wife of the guy that owns that home theater is banging somebody else who isn't completely self-absorbed :)

Either way my point was that inexperienced people ask for things they don't really want, don't really need, or can't really afford... and depending on your mood... you could answer their question with that knowledge :)
 
Gohanto said:
That would imply that companies fire all their engineers first when money is short. That's not the case in any company that I've ever heard of.

They generally scale down pretty evenly across all departments when they have to.
Click to expand...

Well, obviously our experience of the engineering world are different. CFO's may pay lip service to 'maintain engineering capability', but for the most part that's all it is.


But just what I gathered from your post... Your ideal company is one that designs a product, then moves production to China for cheap labor...
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite. Offshore production is a financial person's wet dream, not an engineer's. What I like are companies that spend lots of money on engineers, and engineering.

Since Shure is, as I recall, a privately held company, I can't really tell from any financial filings how much of their gross sales is devoted to engineering, or specificly 'new designs'. Such a number is often opaque even in public companies.

About the only intellegence one can get is 'now hiring', and at the moment, just after college and universities are letting out for the summer, Shure has one 'DSP engineering intern' position open, at least from their online career section.

If that's it... I'd say not much is going on at Shure, or they hire real(tm) engineers via head hunters... or perhaps, have such good engineers that they have low turnover and high output... my guess is they are hunkering down...

I could perhaps drop by Carvin which is a long standing in-town audio manufacturer to see what they are doing in terms of manufacturing... but perhaps Carvin isn't a name any one would recognize, or recognize as being a 'significant' player in the audio world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top