Billing advice

[roxics]

So I have a client that I've worked with for years. In fact the contact I worth is at this client is a personal friend of mine, he's the reason I even have the work from them and I've been lucky to have that work.
My friend is very fair and understanding, but sometimes his hands are tied on certain things. Unfortunately his organization hasn't wanted to pay more for videos since I've stated working with them back in 2017. Despite the fact that everything has gone up 35% give or take over the last eight years, any time I try to raise my rate with them my friend tells me I can't, that they won't go for it, they'll just get someone else. So I'm stuck because I can't afford to lose the work. The other problem is, everything is still be billed on an hourly bases whereas my other clients are not based on job quotes up front. I used to like the hourly approach because I could bill the time it took me and never lose, but now that I can't raise my hours rate, I'm stuck making the same thing on these projects I did back in 2017.

That said, there is one type of project I do for them that I have started charging a flat rate for, profile videos for their members. They all take roughly the same amount of time and the same level of complexity, so I've been able to sort of get away with billing them all the same for the last several years based on that fact. They have also been happy enough with that price that they've been paying it for years. I've been happy because I know going in how much I'll make from that video. Except, a wrench just got thrown into that setup.

Over a month ago I finished a couple of competition videos for this client and sent my friend an invoice for those two videos. These were sort of like member profile videos but cut a little differently for use in a competition they were entering these member into. But they also wanted to make profile videos for these members as well. Down the line. Or at least that was what ws originally proposed in the pecking order of videos I have to complete for them. However my friend sent me back an email asking if we could hold off on this invoice and complete the two profiles videos and then just invoice the four videos all together. I said yeah. Those profile videos were completed and he asked me for the new invoice. I sent it over and he's not happy about the uniformity of the price. I had charged the same amount for each of the four videos. He doesn't personally have an issue with it, but he says his bosses will look at it and ask why they all cost the same when the profiles are using the same footage (just remixed with some new quotes and so on, actually the profiles are longer cuts) as the other competition videos. So basically he's asking me to lower my price on the two profile videos. But if I do that, there goes the uniformity in the price of profile videos. Plus the loss of income for me as well. As I'm guessing (I still have to talk to him) that he's not asking me to lower the price but $50 per video but probably by half or close to it.

In my mind, I'm trying to charge based on the value of these videos as individual pieces, no matter the fact they are using the same footage mixed up a bit, they are each a unique video unto themselves and I'm charging for them based on that. Whereas he's saying that his bosses will think they are so similar to each other they will say something like "why are we being charged the same amount for two videos that are nearly identical to each other." I can see that point of view. And it's not like I'm not flexible with them either, just yesterday my friend came to me asking for a couple edits on a profile video from 2020, and I didn't bill him for those. That's not the first time I've had additional edits on older videos. So I have to sometimes do support on older videos like these that are five years old, which means taking any cut on what I do bill for videos.

So I don't want to get into an argument with him over this, and I won't. I'll take the loss if I have to, because they make up anywhere from 50-95% of my video income every year.
Ironically my friend's wife, is my other big client. She works for a different but similar organization that is much bigger. I bill her by quoting a project price up front. I've been able to increase my prices with her organization a couple of times over in the last ten years. They seem to be more flexible to the idea that everything has gone up. I effectively quote her an hourly that is twice what I quote him. Even though I'm not quoting her by hours, but internally for myself that's what I use. So vastly different situations from the same couple. Interesting but also touchy as if I do potentially anger one I could lose the work from both and them, I'm out of the video business. But again they are personal friends as well, first, and clients second. But you know how that can get tricky.

So after reading that novel, Lol! I guess my question to all of you is, what would you do in this situation? Just take the loss?

 

[NorBro]

I think you take the loss because I don't know if you are in any position to negotiate.

I don't know what the actual videos above are and I'm so burnt out from the word AI that I don't even want to say it - but, yeah, AI can now replicate humans really well and people are okay signing off on their likeness being used in AI edits and if companies like the above find out about that kind of stuff and it works for their purpose, you're going to be gone overnight (knock on wood). So you want to keep people happy (to a point, of course, without getting stepped on).

Basically...tread lightly...you need the business (it sounds like).

 

[paulears]

I'm in a similar position with an old client - and am in the same stuck price situation. Most of the work I do for them includes things out of scope, and not really 'my job'. I've managed to creep in some extra charges there, that get added to the invoice as extra things, rather than a hike in the basic rates. They forward me contract material they receive, so on the invoice appears a "Flown fast fold projection screen as per rider", or "Q-lab playback - as per rider". The macbook would already be there, as would the screen. This in past days would have been freebies - but the freebies have gone now.

 

[Peter C.]

I've experience the same thing have clients who I have kept the prices the same despite the cost of living going up at insane rates. Usually the answer is you need to find more clients and then you'll be in the position to asks for more and be ok if they go else where. I often will work with a client and say if you have a fixed limited budget lets decide how we can scale back things to fit that budget.

 

[Kubicixfactor]

I've got a couple of clients who I've worked with for about five years - still keep them on the same rate because they feed in some work throughout the year and I know from a side discussion with their content manager that it's a fine line between using me and taking the work in house. I'd rather have that work, it's low tension and they always pay on time. Any new clients get quoted at a higher rate.

If I were you and the work is comfortable (e.g. no stress) then I'd stick with it, particularly since it accounts for so much of your editing income. I realise it feels wrong that they're resisting an increase but I sense there's going to be a downward trend on rates going forward.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

Tough call for sure. Lots of good advice in this thread.

I'd second (or third or fourth) the opinion that if you don't have a bunch of other clients right now chomping at the bit to work with you then it may not be an ideal time to raise rates.

If you know there's going to be too much push back, now's the time to keep things the same and then aggressively go after new business at a rate that better reflects the current times.

Once you have enough new clients at the new rate, pitch a rate increase to your legacy client and be prepared to lose them if they say no.

 

[paulears]

I always used to mark up what the freelance guys I used charged me - but now, I get the same as them because I've increased what I pay them. That is fair to me. Clients are never far from dumping you. One had historically a very low equipment hire charge - because the gear for them was not that useful to me for anywhere else, and the kit was paid for. A friend told me his company had been approached and the venue told them what I charged and asked them to beat it. They responded that they could not match my price as it was good for a days hire charge. The venue realised they were paying me that for a week! They new a good deal and shut up.

 

[El Director]

I've got a couple of clients who I've worked with for about five years - still keep them on the same rate because they feed in some work throughout the year and I know from a side discussion with their content manager that it's a fine line between using me and taking the work in house. I'd rather have that work, it's low tension and they always pay on time. Any new clients get quoted at a higher rate.

If I were you and the work is comfortable (e.g. no stress) then I'd stick with it, particularly since it accounts for so much of your editing income. I realise it feels wrong that they're resisting an increase but I sense there's going to be a downward trend on rates going forward.

This is how I do things too. I have a weekly financial advisor that stills pays his original rate because it's income I can count on each week and I'm thankful for that. New clients are billed at a higher rate or per project rate depending on the project.

 

[Kubicixfactor]

Clients are never far from dumping you.

So very true. Some advice I got a long time ago from a very good photographer who ran a course on photography as a business was to keep a mindset that as soon as you get a client you're losing them - and to push for new work even at busy times.

You don't know what's going on behind the scenes, someone has a bright idea of getting the budget down by using a relative who's just starting out, competitors go in with stupidly low prices etc.

 

[NorBro]

...competitors go in with stupidly low prices etc.

I basically broke into the business by undercutting all the old timers who were charging a few K per day (~20-years-ago) just for production while I was offering production and post for $150, lmao.

20-years-old, fresh out of college, what did I know, I just wanted to run around with a camera like the Jackass crew and Ashton Kutcher.

The production was nowhere near as professional (mostly because I didn't have lights or great audio - or knowledge, lol), but the shallow DOF images were nicer and, especially, the editing was significantly better.

History has repeated itself where now this old timer got undercut by Gen Z, but I would say rightfully so; they were hungry and creative and I became stale and old and simply uninterested (mostly with filming, not editing).

 

[roxics]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I will take all of it to heart. I do have to count my blessings when it comes to video work. I may not have a lot of clients but I've had them for years and they've been flexible with me for the most part, with the exception of increasing my rate with this client. But I have also lost clients over the years as well, so I know how that goes.

That said, I talked to my friend who is my contact at this client and we've found a work around. One that he actually suggested. He was ok with me keeping the price of the profile videos uniform and agreed with my reasoning. After all, if we charge more for Bill's profile than Bob's but people like Bob better, there might be some drama about that, as petty as that may seem, but people are people. So it's easier to keep all profiles uniform in cost. We just lowered the cost on the two competition videos instead since those are not regular projects with a uniform price model. But he's going to help me make up that cost. So in the end, I'm not losing anything on price, just time between getting paid. Which is fine for me because I've had an active summer so far with quite a few projects going on and more in the pipeline.

I would love to have more clients, but I'm terrible at sales, and as Ive mentioned before, years ago (though I'm sure no one remembers) I am not able to travel. This puts me in an extremely limited position as a videographer and so I mostly work as an editor these days. Aside from local shoots I can get to and the occasional out of town shoot that I contract out to a family member of mine who is a videographer but not an editor. However he works a day job doing something else entirely and can only get so much time off to do side work on video shoots.
He's good and happy to do it when he can, since he gets paid a lot more than his day job to do it, and that works for both of us. So again, I'm happy to have what I have, but I also remember some advice I got from an old friend 24 years ago, long before I started doing video work on my own. We were twenty-two years old and he had just built a website for a local restaurant as a side project while in college and I asked him why he charged them so much, he said "because if I didn't, they wouldn't have taken me seriously." At the time I would have just been happy to do something like that for free or close to nothing just to get my feet wet, completely undervaluing my own work due to lack of confidence, as young people often do. Today I know better. But that is a double edged sword in this business as well. It can just as easily cut you. And in my position, with my limitations, I need to be careful. But I also can't help but need to pay bills as well. Lol! So it's always a balance and one I sometimes struggle with.

Thank you all again!