Better Buy for Indie Feature: Atomos Ninja or Better Camera?

IRecordThings

IRecordThings

Active member
I own an HDC-SD9. It gets the job done for the short YouTube videos I do, but I’m planning on shooting my first feature film over the summer, where the image needs to hold up just as well on a theater screen as it does online.

Previously, I was set on purchasing an HPX170 for the shoot, but that would necessitate the additional purchases of [a] P2 card(s), and probably a new tripod (currently have a Manfrotto 3001BN + 700RC2 head, which I could probably get away with, but I’ve used a DVX on them and it’s an awkward combo).

But then I discovered the Atomos Ninja/Samurai, and thought, hey, for a fraction of the price I could keep the camera and tripod I already have, and just upgrade the image quality—seems like a no-brainer! But I still have a couple questions, namely:
  • Since they’re both intra-frame 4:2:2 at that point, would Ninja ProRes compare well to native DVCPRO HD? Do the 2× larger sensors on the HPX necessarily topple the scales in its favor, or could the HDC keep up given sufficient lighting?
  • The HDC is obnoxiously locked into ”Digital Cinema Color” (Panny’s name for the xvYCC color space) when set to 24p mode. As you may know, xvYCC support is nonexistent in today’s NLEs; the only way to see it is to plug the camera/card directly into a supporting TV/receiver via HDMI—otherwise the extra color information is ignored and it falls back to Rec.709, and the image looks clipped. How does the Ninja handle this color space? Would it be perserved, stripped out, or converted via rendering intent?
  • I saw in another post by Barry that recording to an external recorder isn’t worth it for the HPX because it already uses a high-quality codec and the SDI-Out is only effectively 8-bit; do the advantages of using a Ninja/Samurai similarly diminish across the board as it’s used with better cameras? For instance, is there as big of a quality jump doing HMC150 + Ninja as HDC-SD9 + Ninja?
Thanks!
 
Last edited:
There are so many reasons why a HPX170 would be better over a handy cam even if the image were the same. Although in pure pixel count, the 170 isn't always best cam, there is more to IQ than just pixels. Codec, camera control, 422 color, frame rates, audio and on and on. A more economical solution might be the HMC 150 which is a very similar cam that shoots AVCHD to SD cards. There are lots for sale right now do the the new Panny cams coming on the market.

Grant
 
Are you set on using camcorder? Personally, I don't like the look of the 1/3 inch sensor for films. There are quite a few good alternatives in the DSLR world that would cost you less and have a more cinematic look. They each have their drawbacks, but I'm willing to jump through a few hoops for the image. I would look at the GH2 and t3i
 
does the ATOMOS Ninja works with any consumer level HD camera? I want to exploit the Ninja 4:2:2 color sampling capabilites while using only a consumer HD camcorder.
my thread:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...amcorder&p=1986086428&posted=1#post1986086428

I'm planning on buying either a panasonic HDC-TM900k or TM700k although both of them could shoot at high quality consumer level 1080p videos they are not capable to shoot at 4:2:2 color space(sampling) buy purchasing the Atomos ninja would that solve my problem? could the ninja give TM900k or TM700k capabilities to shoot at 4:2:2 color sampling?
I'm doing a lot of action scenes in front of a green screen.. so this is a huge deal for me. :( :)
 
Last edited:
Start with a professional, or more professional camera. You can then work your way up to the add ons. A house is built on a solid foundation.
 
professional camera are too expensive :P
if only I could get a professional HD 1080p with 4:2:2 color sampling capabilities at 1500 dollars.. but that's just day dreaming.. thanks for the advice.
 
How did the recording go with the HDC-SD9 ?
Just wondering if you compared dynamic range and resolution with and without the ext recorder

IRecordThings said:
I own an HDC-SD9. It gets the job done for the short YouTube videos I do, but I’m planning on shooting my first feature film over the summer, where the image needs to hold up just as well on a theater screen as it does online.

Previously, I was set on purchasing an HPX170 for the shoot, but that would necessitate the additional purchases of [a] P2 card(s), and probably a new tripod (currently have a Manfrotto 3001BN + 700RC2 head, which I could probably get away with, but I’ve used a DVX on them and it’s an awkward combo).

But then I discovered the Atomos Ninja/Samurai, and thought, hey, for a fraction of the price I could keep the camera and tripod I already have, and just upgrade the image quality—seems like a no-brainer! But I still have a couple questions, namely:
  • Since they’re both intra-frame 4:2:2 at that point, would Ninja ProRes compare well to native DVCPRO HD? Do the 2× larger sensors on the HPX necessarily topple the scales in its favor, or could the HDC keep up given sufficient lighting?
  • The HDC is obnoxiously locked into ”Digital Cinema Color” (Panny’s name for the xvYCC color space) when set to 24p mode. As you may know, xvYCC support is nonexistent in today’s NLEs; the only way to see it is to plug the camera/card directly into a supporting TV/receiver via HDMI—otherwise the extra color information is ignored and it falls back to Rec.709, and the image looks clipped. How does the Ninja handle this color space? Would it be perserved, stripped out, or converted via rendering intent?
  • I saw in another post by Barry that recording to an external recorder isn’t worth it for the HPX because it already uses a high-quality codec and the SDI-Out is only effectively 8-bit; do the advantages of using a Ninja/Samurai similarly diminish across the board as it’s used with better cameras? For instance, is there as big of a quality jump doing HMC150 + Ninja as HDC-SD9 + Ninja?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
I have no idea how you reached your reasoning that of the options that will increase your image quality - external recorder is the smartest choice.
Your camera is whatever.
Your tripod is less than whatever.
You are correct, as your means are limited i would not waste my money on upgrades but rather accept the limitations: the camera records with small chip = ok; the camera can't be moved reliably because of my crappy tripod = ok; the camera's footage can't be extensively graded in the post because of heavy compression = ok. The film will be a learning exercise, so don't wast your time and precious money on bells and whistles that will not bring it any closer to being a pro production (as it never will within the limited means). Just do it trying to learn as much as possible and then move on.
 
Though it is strange to see the GH2 being suggested, I bought one because it is cheap and good enough for the things I need to shoot. If I had to buy something decent, a used C100 is looking pretty good right now (since the thread is resurrected).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top