Beta Dubs

TheMacB

TheMacB

Veteran
It doesn't seem like a lot of people are doing this with Vegas. I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing it the best way. I go firewire to my DVX and then S-video to my Beta Deck.

Once a spot is cut, I add a slate and 10 second countdown to the beginning so I end up with a 40 second timeline.

Then I select Print DV to Tape and use that to add 30 seconds of bars and tone. I shoot 24p advanced so i use 2:3:3:2 pulldown template.

Once its on miniDV tape I record it onto Beta through S-video.

It works and the Video looks good but I'm not happy with the quality of graphics. I wonder if there's a better way to do this. Should I use regular NTSC template without the pulldown? Am I losing anything by going to miniDV first? Is there anyway to not go to miniDV first?

Any suggestions or ideas or experience with beta, preparing for broadcast, etc. would be greatly appreciated! thanks guys!
 
bummer. that hurts after 3000 on a beta deck. is that because i'm using vegas? or do i just need a whole lot of other gear? whadda they got that i don't got?
 
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OK, didn't realize you had the deck. You probably want to invest in a card to go directly from your PC to the deck -- Decklink? Haven't researched it, really. But going through S-video isn't going to be your ideal way -- try to stay digital until you absolutely can't.
 
I don't work with Vegas but these concepts are sound....
Component to Beta is always the best, you will likely need a card for that. Please stop using a DV timeline to edit, that hammers your graphics more than anything else you can do. Use a 10 or 8 bit timeline with 720x486 for the best results. A deck engineer once told me that even running video through a DV deck would result in a re-encode in the dv/firewire format and is not exactly a clone of the original material, so there you likely have a double hit on the material before the Beta deck. By the way I hope you are not recording your edited timeline to a 24p pulldown format in the DVX, 29.97 interlace is the only way to do it.
If you must use DV at least edit in DVCPRO 50 or a 720x480 uncompressed timeline and then downrez before dubbing, your graphics will look better.
Cheers,
Kurt Reitz
(In case you are wondering I've edited over 4,000+ commercials in 23 years)
 
awesome, thanks kreitz! I just started 6 months ago and have done about 35. so i'll have to pick up the pace if i wanna catch up with you.
 
hey David, can you help me with any of the Vegas side of this stuff?
Kreitz said:
Component to Beta is always the best, you will likely need a card for that.
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hopefully Decklink will take care of me here. but after some searching, it doesn't look like vegas users have much luck with decklink :(
Kreitz said:
Use a 10 or 8 bit timeline with 720x486 for the best results. If you must use DV at least edit in DVCPRO 50 or a 720x480 uncompressed timeline and then downrez before dubbing, your graphics will look better.
Click to expand...
Vegas's NTSC DV tamplate says it is 8 bit but its 720x480. There is a template called NTSC IMX which is also 8 bit but 720x486. is this more appropriate or is there something better?
Kreitz said:
By the way I hope you are not recording your edited timeline to a 24p pulldown format in the DVX, 29.97 interlace is the only way to do it.
Click to expand...
I was but I promise I'll never do it again (it looked ok when broadcast).

thanks so much for your help, guys!
 
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TheMacB said:
hopefully Decklink will take care of me here. but after some searching, it doesn't look like vegas users have much luck with decklink :(
Click to expand...

The other big name in cards is AJA - you might want to take a look at their offerings to see if they are any more 'Vegas friendly'

Kreitz said:
By the way I hope you are not recording your edited timeline to a 24p pulldown format in the DVX, 29.97 interlace is the only way to do it.
Click to expand...

Kreitz is right in that you want to make sure your final output is 29.97, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot 24fps if you want.
I used 24P quite often when working at a local station, mastering on Beta.
I just never bothered remoing the pulldown - if you want to shoot at 24 and you're mastering on Beta, just shoot 24P (NOT 24PA), and do not remove the pulldown on capture. You'll have 29.97 footage, and just edit on a 29.97 timeline like you normally would (following Kreitz's advice on using either an 8 or 10 bit SD timeilne).

And like he said, definitely do not edit in a DV timeilne - there is no reason for it if you're going to wind up mastering directly to Beta.
Like he said - that's probably what's killing your graphics.
 
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You can always edit in 24p and output as 29.97. Some other NLEs may not allow for this, but one of the strengths of Vegas is that you can. (Besides, when recording to DV tape, you have to go at 29.97; there's no other way. But if you do that for dubbing, use 2:3 pulldown, not 2:3:3:2.)

To clarify, Vegas never removes pulldown during capture, only on the timeline.

So, editing on a 24p timeline isn't an issue, and it's what you should do in order for your graphics, text, etc., to match properly.

Vegas through Vers. 7 only has an 8-bit timeline. Vegas Pro 8.0 has the option of 8-bit or 32-bit floating point.
 
That's what I get for posting in a Vegas thread.
(I'm not a Vegas user, but I do dub alot of spots to Beta)
:)

Didn't mean to confuse the issue.
Listen to David and ignore me...that's my advice.
 
David Jimerson said:
So, editing on a 24p timeline isn't an issue, and it's what you should do in order for your graphics, text, etc., to match properly.

Vegas through Vers. 7 only has an 8-bit timeline. Vegas Pro 8.0 has the option of 8-bit or 32-bit floating point.
Click to expand...

so it sounds like i should set my project properties to NTSC IMX template and change the pixel format to 32 bit floating point. is this right?

but then when i Print Video to Tape it looks like my only options are DV.

Once I get the card, would I forget about Print Video to Tape and just press play in Vegas and record on the deck in order to avoid going to DV? i'd have to figure out a way to get bars and tone in there.

you guys are helping so much! thanks!
 
just found an update on Blackmagic's site that adds support for Vegas 8. Good thing because the Aja cards are about 3 times the price.
 
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