Best way to record interviews with available equipment .. plz help

  • Thread starter Thread starter holysphinx1@hotmail.com
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Didn't think I was being insulting, didn't mean to be. Ahh well.
Agressive? I didn't come to a sound forum and say "I Hate sound" over and over again.

the rest is best not responded to so I wont

BTW since you seemed to take my comments on your reel the wrong way I deleted them. It was intended as constructive criticism and obviously failed in that effort.
 
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There was absolutely nothing wrong with your comments, Noiz2.

Not even going to try sorting out the confusion that is apparent from some of the other comments.
 
ok thank You for clearing things , and neither I meant an insult
i am here to learn most and to help with my few experience second and argue is not my target
and of course i didnt mean to insult sound at All by saying i hate sound :)
but i was sharing my opinion about the difficulties indie film maker have with sound in location , and how they forced to use some high equipment used by big budget fil etc ..
sorry again and i am thanking You and all of other helpful People who are trying to help
" i deleted my post either ""
 
Wow this may be a first! The usual is that we go off on each other till the moderator closes the thread. Maybe this will be a new trend.

To speak more to your issue.
There are a couple of things that factor in.
The first is that sound is a lot less forgiving. A bit of noise in your image is generally acceptable, maybe even a bit soft on the focus, color may be off and it might be off intentionally and that will all be OK.

The same is not true for sound. People know what voices sound like and if it's a nit noisey it's very noticeable, if it's "soft focus" it's hard to understand, if you have colored it in some way it will be obvious and it's either intentional as an effect or it will bother people. There is just not a lot you can get away with in dialog.

Another big difference is that a camera sees pretty much like we do but a microphone hears very differently than we do.

Eyes and ears are both just data gathering devices you see and hear with your brain. In the visual world the brain helps a lot. It can sharpen things (people who are fairly literate will score much better reading eye charts than those who aren't because the brain is great at pattern recognition and people can read even a fuzzy shape if they have a shape in their mind to compare it to). The brain though works agains the filmmaker in sound. You are programed to pay attention to things that are not quite right because they may indicate danger. The brain also inherently tunes out things it tags as not important or not a danger. So little flaws in an image will often get compensated for by the brain and little flaws in sound will get amplified.

So you have to do a better job on sound to have it be on a par with the visuals.

Where I disagree with you is that "better" does not mean expensive gear.

You can do an entire film with a hyper on a boom going straight into a camera and get really good production sound. That get's more problematic with a DSLR because the sound recorded on those is generally pretty bad in the first place but Philip Bloom has gotten some pretty decent recordings doing what everyone who does sound will tell you not to do, using an on camera mic straight into a DSLR. He is doing doc typ work so he gets a bit more slack and ge shoots quite close when he is doing dialog so he is working with the limitations and not fighting them.

You can spend a lot of money on sound, a whole lot more than the equipment you mention. The starting point for a wireless on a big budget feature is going to be a lot closer to $3,000 a piece than $600, and the shotgun is likely to be in the over a thousand range also. Recorders are many thousands. So a full set up for doing big features is in the $50,000 to $100,000 range.

BUT the cost has a lot to do with reliability, and small market. The "quality" is not, in most cases, a lot greater than equipment that costs a lot less. A big film spends a HUGE amount of money on every production day and you had better not be the person that causes a delay. A Lectro wireless sounds a little better than a sennheiser and has a bit more range but the big difference is that the Lectro was built for film and has great support and you can get it fixed or get a replacement in a heartbeat and it's built like a tank. If the film is dropping half a mill a day on production the difference in cost between the lecto and senn is insignificant.

A low budget film is spending no where near that amount of money and you can go with somewhat less robust equipment. Well over half of the "quality" of production sound comes from the person doing it (and I'm being REALLY conservative on that percentage). A noisier mic that is placed well and close is going to be quieter than a better mic placed farther away.

And you are right. If you do great production sound and a fantastic sound post you will reach that great goal where nobody will think you did anything. You will have filled the world of the story and nothing was out of place or sounded wrong. The sounds people don't even notice but subtly support the story and the visuals are all there and your audience will assume you just recorded it while filming because it sounds like it should.

That is why people never think about sound work unless something is wrong. When people find out I do sound for films, about 90% of the time they assume I'm a composer. Almost everyone who sees film and video assumes that other than music it was all recorded on set. Just as in a well cut scene nobody is bothered by the fact that you as viewer ur jumping all over the room, they also assume that the sound just flows across all shots naturally.
 
thank You very much
" people never think about sound work unless something is wrong. "
can You imagine that this sentence is what exactly i meant to say exactly but i can see i said it in the wrong way :)
i apologize for that again
thank You for Your last reply , it was a very easy describing for a complicated issue , and i agree with You in all of it
i noticed as i mentioned b4 that may be there is a problem dealing with sound in my country , i mean recording films dialogue , when i asked a big name in sound recording here , why You use mid range or even low equipment in big budget movies , and it is very Odd that a big film here share the same equipment that a low budget use
:) " our legend triangle that no one get out of it lol , R44 Rolland recorder combined with 2 sets of sen G2 wireless system , and mostly the boom sen ME66 "
he answered me with a very strange answer
he said sound should be at the moderate level if we get the fancy high end mics and etc the difference will not be so large and mostly non of the producer or director or stars will feel the difference !!!!
he have all the right to have his own POV but what was ODD that he just forget one word in this sentence " he should have said in our country only " as i see from many years on many forums like this Great one that there are more Decent wats dealing with sound world wide
any way
for any feature i used and will always use a sound guy and mostly will get him what he says he needs there are no way to run arround this specially as You see when they are too much on the moderate side
but as i am here to learn Positively and specially if i am going in the future to shoot small documentary interview in no budget film like the non Profit org i like to do
briefly i have Learned now this rules and plz correct me if i am wrong :
1- do not use wireless system unless it is moderate level and say no to cheap level cas if they work ok in some situation " like they did few times with me "
they still unstable system and will not save me in different situations which at then end i can not rely on for Pro work moderate means 600$ and above for one set

2- a shotgun can be enough if You cant get the wireless , and try to find the better i can

3- external recorders is the best way to go but still can do on cam recording but be aware of the limitations and that this is not the best way to do it

4 - spend some times watching tutorials on placing the boom as i know some rules gathered by the years i spent as an ass director in features i know some things , like the shotgun is getting sound also from behind person etc but still i need to learn a lot " my father who is also and old director says the boom guy in his films is more important one in sound department in his films cas placement and direction is everything "

Note : the best Egyptian films which was made until may be 2000 or 1999 was just shoot by Shotgun only no wireless was used yet and they are still amazing films and with all the new technology this days we dont make the same charm movies

now what is Your advice for the smallest and easy system for me " small means cheap as i will use it in films i do not get paid for "
and as a mad question is there a mic on radioshack can be mounted on tripod as near as possible to the person i interview and acts more like a shotgun even if it isnt , a mic that can be better than my Wireless System

dont limit Your advice to me on my 2 questions if You see another solution suitable in my case just tell me

thank You again very much
 
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Audio Technica AT875, $163
Zoom H5, $269
Cables, shock mount, headphones - $100-300

Clap your hands at the start of every clip to sync sound (dual system sound) later in post and have the full quality of the recorder or feed a 3.5mm cable from Zoom to your 5D Mark 2 to use the recorder as microphone preamplifier and phantom power supplier. Or do both and decide later. Set 5D to lowest mic sensitivity, 1.

Rent the system to others to get your money back.
 
@raphb
thank You very much really
i just have 2 questions is the Audio Technica AT875 better than the famous rode mic , or they are different and i just asked a silly question :)
the second question why You Prefer it for me over the zoomH4n or even the Younger the zoom h1 " since i will use only one mic input "
could be naive question as the above but i want to learn
i hope of Your kindness to not hate me for the following Question :)
i found a lot of people using just the zoom H1 as if it is a shotgun mic and recorder in the same time which i know it isnt
but i watched some tutorials and tests on net lately shown comparison between road shotgun mic vs the zoom H1 to my ears it sound ok
but i didnt see any test outdoor " do You think it just work indoor and that was the trick that made zoom achieve same result as the rode mic ?
sorry for my long reply and thank You again for Your info
 
I've had the AT875 on a wish list for awhile because it would fit some things I do. I'm not sure the AT875 is a good choice since you have the 66, and neither are noted as being great indoors in a live room. If I were picking up a second mic it would probably be a hyper.

I'm not personally very fond of Zoom recorders. The H4 when it came out was a great deal, but better manufacturers like Tascam have made recorders in the same or better price range that I think are better over all. The DR40 for instance. But that may be more personal preference than "hard facts".

The biggest reason to not use a recorder/ mic is that you can't really control it. You need to be able to put the mic where it needs to be and the recorder needs to be with the sound person and that is never where the mic needs to be.

I would use something better than a hand clap. Partially so you can have some visual reference. In practice you can sync on the audio waveform so you can probably get away with just the hand clap. In a doc. you may be limited in the ability to slate so the clap is better than nothing.

The other "trick" that will help is to set the clock on the camera and the recorder to the same time. That way your files will have time stamps that will tell you which goes to which.


 
@Noiz2
thank You again for the info
but i dont have neither the me66 nor the r44 now i bought them for the film and i needed money after it cas i was already bough a lot of equipment like jib and steady and lot lenses etc so i was forced to sell them few months after the film sadly and now i have just the equipment listed in my signature
the ironic thing that when i was selling the r44 i though that i can leave the me66 with boom and not to sell it but sadly my short looking told me why You ever could record sound by Yourself , You will always have the sound guy so will rent his own tools any way , and sadly i was looking very short and didnt imagine i will need to do it alone in such a non Profit Project volunteering with zero budget :)
but that had happened and i now must not stay crying about what i did i have to move forward so i want to build my wishlist like You guys but this time knowing my budget limits so i dont want to make same old mistakes by buying in cost over than what i can afford then sell them and loose money etc !
so i see that the Audio Technica AT875 is recomended for low budget
another question if the problem of placing the recorder is an issue i have a solution we use here and i see it which is mounting the recorder or the mic on another tripod just as near as possible to the person just out of frame and the sound guy can wear headphone and stand near it , another way i saw on net was the guy mounted the zoom h1 on boom pole and get long cable for his headphone will this work in tiny situations ??
here is alink someone compared the zoom vs rode but i can feel he is to much near the even the cam mic would get him good :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLFNtNBh7zc

and here dave found "of course " that rode is slightly better in his test
thank You i have took a lot of Your time and effort to answer my questions ,, thanks a lot :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8cYSI3sAg4
 
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holysphinx1@hotmail.com said:
@raphb
i just have 2 questions is the Audio Technica AT875 better than the famous rode mic , or they are different and i just asked a silly question :)
the second question why You Prefer it for me over the zoomH4n or even the Younger the zoom h1 " since i will use only one mic input "
Click to expand...

I don't know which one you mean by "famous" - Rode has a lot of microphones. If you mean the NTG-2, then I'd get the AT875 one over the NTG-2.

The Zoom H5 uses the same microphone preamplifiers as the Zoom h6, which are a noticeable improvement over the Zoom H4n. Also, why someone would pick an older product over a new one (except in exceptional cases) is beyond me. The Zoom H5 feels better and looks better, in case you or your clients care about that.
 
holysphinx1@hotmail.com said:
@Noiz2
here is alink someone compared the zoom vs rode but i can feel he is to much near the even the cam mic would get him good :)
Click to expand...
The Zoom H1 makes sense if you are running very cheap. You will only be able to use microphones that provide their own power (rode ntg-2, rode NT4, sennheiser mke 600) or small lavalier microphones. Its advantage is that it is super small and very cheap. It doesn't sound very good though, and as soon as someone gets or rents a microphone with XLR connector, you will need to replace the H1.

The Rode mic is mostly good if you want to place the microphone on the camera. And thats a bad place to put your microphone.
 
thank You for that info
ido have an adapter from xlr to H1
but seems i can not use a nice mic like the Audio Technica AT875 ?
You are right the H5 and H6 even makes sense as investment for future uses if someone have the budget ,
thank You again
 
The Audio Technica AT875 requires 11-52V Phantom Power. The H1 and most other recorders with a 3.5 mm mini-plug supply 'Plug-in Power' (technically, bias current), a totally different animal and the two are NOT compatible..
OTOH, a internal battery powered mic, with the proper adapters (if needed) would work.
 
Rick R said:
a internal battery powered mic, with the proper adapters (if needed) would work.
Click to expand...

thank You for the info
but if not Audio Technica AT875 what is the other low budget option You suggest ?

thank You again
 
You could save on the recorder (buy H1) but then you need a pricier microphone that will be heavier and longer (more intimidating to some) - Sennheiser MKE 600. That combo costs more though and will have to be replaced faster as you want to improve the sound quality.

The AT875 is recommended because its better than the other low budget options. If you want a worse option, what do you want it to have? Lower price?
 
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RE: the Rode video mic VS the H1.
I'm not sure why people do these things it's like let me compare a panavision lense to high end DSLR, they don't do the same thing.

As a recorder I would not get anything that does not take an XLR input except as a second recorder for quick sound grabs.
And I would not use a stereo mic for interviews.

It sounds like you are doing sit down interviews. If that is the case then you can mount a mic on a stand (usually) and be fine. Depending on how close you get you may be able to use the Videomic mounted on the camera. That won't work on a feature but in a doc. if you are shooting pretty close it might be fine. The biggest problem is that the camera does not have a great sound section. If your 5D doesn't have a manual sound level setting then that is another problem. I don't think it shipped that way but I think there was a firmware upgrade that fixed that omission.

That would certainly be the cheapest choice. And you could get a stereo 1/8" extension cable to mount the mic on a stand.

Not a great solution but simple and inexpensive and maybe good enough.

Cheapest is to use your wireless and run it into the camera. Quality wise? Wireless is really always a hit on a wired mic but how big a hit depends on a lot of things. In your case you should be really close so even a weak transmitter should be OK. If you don't have a lot of RF where you will be shooting and the mic sounds OK? Documentaries have a pretty low bar that is "acceptable" to an audience. Certainly a LOT lower than a narrative film so OK maybe good enough.

It's really your call.

Radio Shack doesn't make anything so it's hard to tell what the quality is at any given time. But they have in the past had microphones made by quality companies. You have to do the research on the items that they have in your store since not everything is the same store to store.
 
very much handy reply thank You
i agree with all of it
i hope also if You remembered any radioshack mic or model just tell me
and yes 5d now have a manual level for audio input beside many more audio controls if You use the hack Magic Lantern
ty again You are helpful
 
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