Best way to diffuse light (Without bouncing it)

D

DDirector

Veteran
I have Arri lights (300, 650, 1000 arrilite)
I dont use hard light a lot, I mostly use soft light.

Right now I have diffusion gels that I attach to the barn doors. 1/4 stop and 1/2 stop.
But, its not enough, especially for the 1000 if shooting in a small room.

Whats the best way to diffuse the light better, but still being able to control it?
*Without having to bounce it off a wall or a bounce card.

-Get thicker diffusion gels and attached to the barn doors like already doing so
-Diffusion on a frame in front of the light
-Softbox


My other question is, what would be the difference between the 3? Is there any? What are the pro's and con's to each?
 
buy a big umbrella, I use them all the time if I want to soften a fresnel 1k. Just shoot the light through it, the umbrella shape holds much of the spill, and it really works nicely for a cheap solution.
 
The quality of light is simply based on the relative size of the emitting source. If you had a 4-bank kino, that was theoretically powerful enough to cast light hundreds of feet away, it would be a harder source than a Fresnel close to the subject.

So with that said, stop putting diffusion on barndoors. It only softens your light a little. Think about a fresnel lens, say a 12" lens... you're putting a 20"x20" gel five inches infront. Your basically getting a 18x18 circular diffused light. It is softer, yes, but not by much, IMO. The density of the gel will soften it only to a certain point, to which you'll just start loosing intensity... especially if using a fresnel to begin with, as your light softens and is reduced because of the lens. Don't thicken your diffusion past normal diffusion. You'll just screw yourself out of light.

Get a 4x4 empty frame and arm it out with a c-stand, infront of the light. Butterfly some light-medium diffusion material to the frame and position your light behind it. Move the lamp position until the light beam just covers the entire frame. Get some extra flags for spill control.




OR.... for the smaller, faster and less experienced production... get a Chimera, experiment with the different strengths of diffusion silk and maybe the egg-crate too.
 
Cool. thanks :)

I never used the method with the frame. I only used the gels attached to the barn doors method.
Sounds like I should get those framed silks with C-Stands then.

I've been looking for those frames and the silk and I couldnt find them.
I dont know the technical name it would be under. Both the frames and the diffusion material.
Either at B&H, The Shouce Shop or Vistek in Toronto.
Can someone link me to them? (4x4 is fairly large. 3x3 seems better in si\e)

It does sound like a big price tag though :undecided

thanks
 
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Yeah, there definitely are 3x3 frames. They're just not as widely used as 4x4, 2x3, or 18x24 stuff. 3x3 might be better for you if you have to fit it in your small car, but 4x4 is more of the industry standard.

I wouldn't get a silk, just because it isn't quite as versatile. An open frame would be good because you can skin it as opal one day and 216 the next, just might want to save your pieces if you want to save money, or better yet, maybe buy 2 or 3 open frames, so you can have a few levels of diffusion ready to go. 3 to try would be opal (light) 250 (medium) and 216 or 129 (heavy)

Just some useful information on how to skin a frame as well, you'll need 1" white gaff as well as 1" snot tape, or double sided tape. Put the frame on a c-stand and then tape all the way around the frame with the 1" white gaff and then put the snot tape on top of this. If you have two people, cut the gel into a piece a little bigger than the frame and then start with it on two corners and just work your way down the frame, stretching it as tight as possible. If you're on your own, keep it on the roll and again start with two corners and then slowly unroll it, attaching it to the frame as you go.

It's just really important to put that 1" white gaff down first before you do the snot tape. I've seen frames basically destroyed because somebody put snot tape directly on the frame and left it there for years. It never comes off and is pretty much the most disgusting thing ever.

Good luck! You'll find that your light is going to be a lot softer once you start making it a bigger source like this, just make sure your lights actually fill the whole frame though.
 
Having a scrim kit and a few Harbor Freight Router speed controls for those Arri's would also be a good addition to your light kit.
 
I concur the way to go is open frames skinned with different strengths of diffusion gels and I'd also suggest opal 250 and 216.

I also find that to control these big beautiful sources you need 4'X4' floppy flags to keep them off the walls, for example.
 
I'm curious as to why you would rule out using a bounce light. It's one of the most common and effective methods of getting a large, soft light. Yes, you need large flags to control spill, but that goes for any large source.
 
RyanT said:
3x3 might be better for you if you have to fit it in your small car, but 4x4 is more of the industry standard.
Click to expand...

Whenever possible I use a Grip Truck as they're relatively inexpensive considering what's included. When that's not possible I have a slew of compact, & lightweight, gear to bring along.

Compact, & lightweight, are more important to me than purchasing price as I'm often walking into a location mostly blind, & want as many tools as practical. Heavy-duty Hollywood gear can usually be bought for less money then much of what is mentioned below.

Open frames are great, especially if they're already skinned, but a bit bulky. So I carry a pair each of Chimera's 6x6', 4x4', & 2x2', breakdown frames, plus complete sets of rags, diffusion, & gels. Except for the diffusion, & gels, these all fit into a single lightweight golf club shipping case.

www.chimeralighting.com/Products/Lighting-Kits/Panels-and-Frames-Kits

http://www.amazon.com/SKB-2SKB-4812WS-Standard-Golf-Travel/dp/B0007VNZDG

Also Matthews' RoadRags in various sizes. I haven't purchased their 4x4' RoadFlags yet, but they're on my radar, & I hope to have a "Floppy" feature added.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=RoadRags&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/443183-REG/Matthews_999027_RoadFlags_Kit_4x4.html

I'm also a big fan of softboxes, especially when crew, &/or space, is slim, so have a variety of shapes, & sizes, each with a few different density faces, & egg-crates. While not quite as versatile as frames, flags, etc, they are usually faster to rig, & require less grip. And the dozen, or so, I own fit into another golf bag-sized case.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/53863-REG/Tenba_634_504_1030_PAT_TriPak.html

While fresnels are the most versatile movie light, they too are bulky, so I often carry PhotoFlex Starlights. Chimera since come out with a version that I'd consider if I was buying again, but the Starlights have held up well, & four of them, along with a squeezer, globes, & speedrings, fit into a small padded Pelican.

Unfortunately there's no getting around the need for some hefty equipment, & my truck is always overloaded with steel stands, shot bags, & camera cart. To squeeze in as much as possible I use breakdown C+ stands, & shotbags instead of sandbags.

But back to softening the fresnels. When moving fast it's not uncommon to hang a 4' roll of diffusion from a C-Stand arm, & weight the other end with a pair of A-Clamps.

I'm also a fan of lightly fogging a room to add atmosphere to soften the light, & lens. In such circumstances hard light often needs no additional diffusing.

A cheaper source for diffusion, gels, or any expendables, is ...

Expendables Recycler
5812 Columbus Ave
Van Nuys CA 91411
(818) 901-9796

And for anyone who hasn't done so yet, the Set Lighting Technician's Handbook is a must read.

http://www.amazon.com/Set-Lighting-Technicians-Handbook-Fourth/dp/0240810759

Best,
Bern
 
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David W. Jones said:
...a few Harbor Freight Router speed controls for those Arri's.
Click to expand...

I have a number of these that were purchased in desperation during a travel gig, & they are useful as squeezers, but larger diameter plugs found on many Hollywood lights do not seat fully into the socket, so are a bit dodgy.

Best,
Bern
 
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DDirector said:
I have Arri lights (300, 650, 1000 arrilite)
I dont use hard light a lot, I mostly use soft light.
Click to expand...

The easiest way is to get some softboxes. Quick set up, small space footprint. Light. Versatile. Grab some eggcrates with them and get even better control. They usually have an inner and out diffusion layer for half and full stop.

Frames for diffusion are very good as well but often find when using frames the control aspect takes a little longer to get where I need it as you cant use eggcrates for one. Depends on what youre doing of course, but as it relates to small units like 300 / 650 or 1K IMO its the best option.
 
This thread got me to thinking, or I should say remembering. Before Chimera's came along gaffers used to take white foam core and cut it into 4 trapezoids then tape it together leaving a small hole at one end and a large hole at the other. They then covered the large hole with what ever diffusion desired then clamped the whole thing to a lights barn doors. Ta-da cheap softbox. You could even remove the diffusion, fold it up and reuse it.

I had forgotten all about these things.

I am about to start a four week show. If any one is interested when I get done I will build one as a tutorial.
 
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