Best way to connect SD MM-1 to Tascam DR100?
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Steve House
Veteran
The output of the MM-1 is +4dBu pro line-level, mono, transformer balanced on an XLR connector. The DR-100 line input is -10dBv consumer line level, stereo, on a 3.5mm TRS jack. You're not likely to find an off-the-shelf cable or combination of cables and adapters that will work properly so you'll probably have to make one up yourself if you're handy with a soldering iron or have one custom made if you're not. The cable needs to have an XLR-F on the end plugging into the MM-1 and a 3.5mm TRS plug on the end going to the DR-100. Pin 2 on the XLR-F connector goes to the tip connector on the TRS mini-plug, Pin 3 on the XLR-F connector goes to the sleeve on the TRS. You need to unbalance the signal by grounding pin 3 to pin 1 in the XLR connector. Leave the ring in the TRS unconnected. This puts a mono signal from the MM-1 onto the left channel in the DR-100. You might be able to get away with just the cable but because of the different 'line-level' definitions used by the two devices you may also need an attenuating pad to get them to match. Because of the different specifications for the voltage at 0dB, there's approximately 12dB difference between -10dBv and +4dBu so you'll need a 12dB pad in the line to drop the MM-1's output down to avoid overloading the DR-100 input. 10dB would be close enough. Even better, build the pad right into the XLR-F connector so you don't have to hassle a stack of adapters - get hold of 3 1/8 watt 1% 332ohm film resistors and follow the diagram in fig.2 on this link. http://www.dplay.com/book/pgs2e/pads.pdf.
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I connect a SD Mixpre to Zoom H4n TRS input. I did buy a cable cann't remember where from, sorry. I also have as backup a Hosa adapter, no. GXP-143, labelled XLR3F to 1/4 in TRS. http://www.amazon.com/HOSA-GXP-143-...8&qid=1354979845&sr=8-1&keywords=hosa+GXP-143
A Hosa variable attenuator should take care of output http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Female-Male-Input-Attenuator/dp/B000K67U52
A Hosa variable attenuator should take care of output http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Female-Male-Input-Attenuator/dp/B000K67U52
Steve House
Veteran
That won't work for the DR-100. The H4n has 2 mono, balanced, !/4 TRS "line" (actually 'instrument level') inputs. The DR-100 is different, having its line inputs on a single unbalanced stereo 3.5mm jack. Using the adapter you pointed to stacked with a 1/4 to 3.5mm adapter, while it will fit physically, will result in the MM-1 signal going to the recorder's left channel along with a phase inverted copy going to the right, resulting in all manner of headaches in post and distribution. Oh, and the attenuator is too strong even at its lowest setting ... it's -20, -30, or -40 while he needs -12.
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Wow... didn't expect that.
Thanks for the in depth answer. I suppose I could jerry-rig up something like this or perhaps use a recorder with actual line level inputs. Before I invest effort into making a cable, would there be an option out there for a decent priced upgrade to my DR100? I've heard the DR100 MarkII has line level inputs, would that work with the MM-1?
Selling my DR100 I might make back 150 or so and I'd like to try and stay under $450 total; I'm totally open to buying used / ebay / dvx marketplace etc.
Steve House
Veteran
Most inexpensive small recorders and camcorders only have the -10dBv consumer line level but it looks like the MarkII is an exception. It should work fine with the MM-1. Don't have one but according to the published specs, the XLR inputs can be switched from mic level to pro +4dBu line level. The output of the MM-1 is mono of course so you'd use a single standard XLR-M -> XLR-F patch cable to connect it to your choice of either left or right XLR on the recorder.
Rick R
Veteran
"Don't have one but according to the published specs, the XLR inputs can be switched from mic level to pro +4dBu line level."
- The DR-100mkII (and DR-40) support +4dB balanced inputs via the XLR/1/4" combo connector. The original DR-100 only has the 1/8" unbalacned line in and mic level XLRs.
- The DR-100mkII (and DR-40) support +4dB balanced inputs via the XLR/1/4" combo connector. The original DR-100 only has the 1/8" unbalacned line in and mic level XLRs.
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Steve House
Veteran
Look again. The DR-100 Mark II does not have those 1/4 / XLR combo connectors. It has conventional XLR connectors that are switch selectable between mic level and +4dBu line level.
Throwback
Well-known member
To the OP: I connect an MM-1 via a short unbalanced xlr to 1/4" cable to a Zoom H4 (not H4n), the dual 1/4" inputs of which are rated -10 dBm, with no need to pad.
Steve: as I say, this comparable set up seems to me to work perfectly, with no sign of overloading: what advantage - if any - would be gained by putting a pad in the line to drop the MM-1 level to the H4 (the -10 dBm rating being roughly equivalent to the -10dBv DR-100 line input [am I right in thinking -10 dBm translates to -12.2 dBv?]? Wouldn't I have to simply increase the MM-1 gain to counter the effect of the pad to maintain the same level on the recorder (i.e. reducing the signal to noise ratio), or is there some benefit that I am missing (e.g. implications for the MM-1 limiter)?
Cheers,
Roland
Steve: as I say, this comparable set up seems to me to work perfectly, with no sign of overloading: what advantage - if any - would be gained by putting a pad in the line to drop the MM-1 level to the H4 (the -10 dBm rating being roughly equivalent to the -10dBv DR-100 line input [am I right in thinking -10 dBm translates to -12.2 dBv?]? Wouldn't I have to simply increase the MM-1 gain to counter the effect of the pad to maintain the same level on the recorder (i.e. reducing the signal to noise ratio), or is there some benefit that I am missing (e.g. implications for the MM-1 limiter)?
Cheers,
Roland
Steve House
Veteran
The MM-1 is a +4dBu (or dBm if you prefer) output. dBm is roughly equivalent to dBu, not dBv. There's about a 12dB difference between +4dBu and -10dBv. You could reduce the gain on the MM-1 so it doesn't overload the recorder, true enough, but I think a pad is safer in the event of unexpected loud sounds sneaking by.
Throwback
Well-known member
Steve,
Many thanks for reply. Are you saying, then, that while using the mm-1 gain - as I do - keeps the levels OK for the recorder consumer-level line in, that for the mm-1 limiters to work properly (which, of course, should do the job of limiting the unexpected loud sounds) a pad should be placed in line? I would certainly like to take full advantage of the SD limiters, given their reputation. If so, would the 10db pad that you suggest for the (-10dBv) DR-100 also be suitable for the (-10dBm) H4, or is my dBm to dBv conversion above OK - which would suggest (to my probaly confused mind!) a 15dB pad?
Cheers,
Roland
Many thanks for reply. Are you saying, then, that while using the mm-1 gain - as I do - keeps the levels OK for the recorder consumer-level line in, that for the mm-1 limiters to work properly (which, of course, should do the job of limiting the unexpected loud sounds) a pad should be placed in line? I would certainly like to take full advantage of the SD limiters, given their reputation. If so, would the 10db pad that you suggest for the (-10dBv) DR-100 also be suitable for the (-10dBm) H4, or is my dBm to dBv conversion above OK - which would suggest (to my probaly confused mind!) a 15dB pad?
Cheers,
Roland
Steve House
Veteran
I've seen the specs on some consumer gear like your Zoom given in dBm but that's not really appropriate for audio. dBm is looking at power into a specific impedence while dBu and dBv are looking at voltage. dBu is voltage relative to 0.775 volts while dBv is voltage relative to 1.000 volts. The exact difference between +4dBu and -10dBv is 11.78 dB so take your pick, -10 or -15 will do for practical work, -10 being the closest.
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Throwback
Well-known member
Hi Steve,
Thanks again. Following your post, I sent a query to Sound Devices to try and clear up the matter (in my mind) of the impact, if any, on the output limiter of the MM-1 by not using a pad with this set up, and Vaughn Freitag came back very quickly a few minutes ago to recommend just running the SD MM-1 straight into the 'consumer' line-level input of my recorder as I do at present (i.e. without a pad): I've not had any issues with doing this to date (it is not as if the MM-1 has meters that are, due to the lack of a pad, out of kilter with those on the recorder), so I'll stick with this set up and the OP might want to try just with a cable (with the wiring as you describe) too, given that the DR100 input is so similar to the original H4.
Cheers,
Roland
Thanks again. Following your post, I sent a query to Sound Devices to try and clear up the matter (in my mind) of the impact, if any, on the output limiter of the MM-1 by not using a pad with this set up, and Vaughn Freitag came back very quickly a few minutes ago to recommend just running the SD MM-1 straight into the 'consumer' line-level input of my recorder as I do at present (i.e. without a pad): I've not had any issues with doing this to date (it is not as if the MM-1 has meters that are, due to the lack of a pad, out of kilter with those on the recorder), so I'll stick with this set up and the OP might want to try just with a cable (with the wiring as you describe) too, given that the DR100 input is so similar to the original H4.
Cheers,
Roland
Steve House
Veteran
The limiter is fixed at +17dBu. You culd easily overdrive a consumer line level well before the limiter kicks in. Vaughn is certainly correct but it's a bit risky unless the operator is very skilled IMHO
Throwback
Well-known member
Steve, thanks for further thoughts: well, a -10db pad is pretty cheap, so I'll get one anyway then and play around to hear the difference. As I said, so far I've not had an issue, but have not had the unexpectedly loud sounds for which the limiters need to be effective.
Cheers,
Roland
Cheers,
Roland