BEST Shoulder Camera

NorBro

NorBro

Major Contributor
Hi,

This isn't news info...but..from you pros...I'm wondering what the best shoulder camera is with exceptional quality these days? For shoulder work, I've had some experience with the HPX370/HPX500, but I feel like they are past their prime. Just on the sidelines 3 years ago, everyone was using the Varicam. Is there a better shoulder camera out there? I would like a NON interchangeable system. If not, do you truly recommend a DSLR or a C300 for a better quality shoot these days?

Maybe it's the chroma/color space, but there is something in the cameras that shoot high quality on various networks that goes beyond grading. It's like the NFL/MLB studio work type stuff..what's the best high quality camera right now? BMC? 5DMKIII? GH3? HPX 250? Don't tell me it's the EX1/3 still?

Thank you.
 
I think you need to define best because it depends on your budget - and I've never heard of a non interchangeable ( I assume you mean interchangeable lenses ? ) shoulder mount camera.

For shoulder mount - especially for run and gun style shooting I think a 35 mm sensor is the wrong tool and your better off with a hpx3100. For production work if your budget doesn't stretch to an Alexa then a BMC or the new f5/55. Personally I am not a fan of the c300 at all, I would go so far as to say I hate it actually. An F3 with an external recorder would also be a good option if you want 35 mm.
 
Yeah, a non-interchangable lens shoulder mount camera? I can't think of a single one. And why not have a removeable lens? You don't have to have more than one lens. When I had my HPX500, one lens was all I could afford. They can cost as much, or more so than the camera itself. BTW, I agree- the HPX500 is past its prime. I think the HPX370 is still pretty good.

The EX3, while in my opinion is not a true shoulder-mount cam, is very popular. When a friend of mine was venturing into freelance, he asked me what camera to buy. I told him the best, as far as budget, work and rental, is the EX3. He bought one and gets lots of work with it. I wish I had taken my own advice and gotten one, too.

While Varicams still get some use, the people I know who own them say they've become dust collectors. I'd stay away from them, or any tape-based cameras, for that matter.

The Sony F800 is a hugely popular camera, if you can afford one. NFL films uses the Panny HPX3100.

You never stated your budget, or what you intend to use the camera for. That is a big deciding factor. Are you an Alexa or HPX370 budget?

If I were to buy a shoulder mount cam, I'd go for the EX3, or the PMW 320/350 line. Keep in mind, all of these cameras record in 35mbps, 4:2:0 XDCAM, and some broadcast networks won't accept their videos unless you use some kind of external recorder. But if you're not sending your videos to the Discovery Channel, I wouldn't worry about that. Even if you are, I'd bet they'd accept it, if the content is good. They really do make very good images.

For the lightest weight shoulder-mount cams, it's hard to beat the JVC HM700 family. They also shoot in XDCAM.

I am very interested in the new Panasonic HPX600. It's the replacement for the 500. It's actually lighter than the 370. It has one 2/3" chip, which is odd. It's so new, I haven't heard many reviews for it. I got to play with one for a short while. I really liked it.

And there are shoulder rigs for just about any camera. If you like a particular camera, it can be made into a shoulder-mount, like the popular C300. A popular camera is a camera that can get you jobs.

And finally, if you have the budget, there's the new Sony F5/55 cameras. Big sensors, 4K and a shoulder mount design. What's not to love?
 
They do exist.. the Panasonic HMC-80 is one.. and the Sony HD1000E is another. I have used both and wasn't impressed with either, but I dig the large sensor look.

The sensor on the BMCC is a wicked size, that would give you a nice aesthetic but without giving you any headaches when it comes to focus pulling. Shooting straight to high quality 1080p prores and it can shoot RAW incase you need it.

I like the GH line from panasonic out of all the large sensor stills shooters. It really shows that Panasonic thought about video when designing them, when comparing to the competition (5D, D800, etc). I find they are much more suited to run and gun than the 5d/d800/550d/etc as they have live histograms, tracking AF, touch screens, stepless aperture lenses, power zooms, a more manageable for focus pulling size sensor, a proper sharp 1080 image, little to no aliasing/moire available, 100+ mbps intra hacks.. the list goes on..

5DIII for run and gun is just making it harder for yourself, instead of easier. Sometimes the vista vision look is great but if you miss focus at a vital moment you'll wish you had used a smaller sensor. The low light sensitivity is very good on this camera though, which is it's saving grace. The image is aliasing and moire free almost all the time, but it doesn't really resolve that well.

A C300 puts out a brilliantly sharp 1080p image with a respectable dynamic range. I really love the colour the canon C100/300/500 range are putting out but they are ovrepriced and out specced in most areas. Ergonomically speaking they are supposed to be the dogs danglies.
 
Varicams are on the sidelines because they are a broadcast fixture. Live sports do not need 1080p, so these cameras are still very valid. Buying a camera these days has to come from your work needs.

Trying to compare the image from a network studio situation to a DSLR is just too far apart. The image processing and quality of lenses used are on a big scale apart from the under $10,000 range of cameras. The lenses are a big factor. How does $35,000 to $100,000 sound for a lens? You also have to factor in that you are seeing a final, live graded image from a studio setup. Lighting and processing factor in as well.

So, give up some more information for the forum so we can get you on the right track for your needs.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the great info. The non-interchangeable comment was a typo. The type of work will mostly be run-and-gun shoots - sports/documentary. We will be traveling a lot and following moving subjects, etc. I think it's best to have a real shoulder camera and not mess around with rigging, FF systems, VFs, changing lenses, etc.

Some of the main choices..

HPX370
HPX2000
HPX3100
Sony F800
EX3

Anything else?

Here's my question: Are these cameras really still relevant? I feel like I would be taking a step back since they all run back a few years. Sometimes I see behind the scenes footage of reality TV where they will have a few cameraman...maybe two of them will be shooting on the same type of prosumer camera (medium handheld body) and one or two guys will be shooting with a shoulder camera.

Can anyone CONFIRM some of the best options that networks use out in the field whether it's for reality TV, docs, sports, run and gun type stuff?
 
NorBro said:
Hey guys, thanks for all the great info. The non-interchangeable comment was a typo. The type of work will mostly be run-and-gun shoots - sports/documentary. We will be traveling a lot and following moving subjects, etc. I think it's best to have a real shoulder camera and not mess around with rigging, FF systems, VFs, changing lenses, etc.

Some of the main choices..

HPX370
HPX2000
HPX3100
Sony F800
EX3

Anything else?

Here's my question: Are these cameras really still relevant? I feel like I would be taking a step back since they all run back a few years. Sometimes I see behind the scenes footage of reality TV where they will have a few cameraman...maybe two of them will be shooting on the same type of prosumer camera (medium handheld body) and one or two guys will be shooting with a shoulder camera.

Can anyone CONFIRM some of the best options that networks use out in the field whether it's for reality TV, docs, sports, run and gun type stuff?
Click to expand...
If you have the EX3 on your list, you should add the XF305....it has the higher codec which is BBC/Discovery approved.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
 
ryaninoz said:
I think you need to define best because it depends on your budget - and I've never heard of a non interchangeable ( I assume you mean interchangeable lenses ? ) shoulder mount camera.

For shoulder mount - especially for run and gun style shooting I think a 35 mm sensor is the wrong tool and your better off with a hpx3100. For production work if your budget doesn't stretch to an Alexa then a BMC or the new f5/55. Personally I am not a fan of the c300 at all, I would go so far as to say I hate it actually. An F3 with an external recorder would also be a good option if you want 35 mm.
Click to expand...

Hate the C300? Have you used it a lot? Has it caused you problems on a shoot? Explain please....

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com
 
NorBro said:
Hey guys, thanks for all the great info. The non-interchangeable comment was a typo. The type of work will mostly be run-and-gun shoots - sports/documentary. We will be traveling a lot and following moving subjects, etc. I think it's best to have a real shoulder camera and not mess around with rigging, FF systems, VFs, changing lenses, etc.

Some of the main choices..

HPX370
HPX2000
HPX3100
Sony F800
EX3

Anything else?

Here's my question: Are these cameras really still relevant? I feel like I would be taking a step back since they all run back a few years. Sometimes I see behind the scenes footage of reality TV where they will have a few cameraman...maybe two of them will be shooting on the same type of prosumer camera (medium handheld body) and one or two guys will be shooting with a shoulder camera.

Can anyone CONFIRM some of the best options that networks use out in the field whether it's for reality TV, docs, sports, run and gun type stuff?
Click to expand...

Some other possibilities, from low to high price ...

Sony NEX-EA50UH
Sony PMW-320K
Panasonic AG-HPX600
Sony PMW-350L
Sony PMW-500

ENG-style images don't get much better than from the PMW-500, but it'll cost you about $30K with a lens.

These cameras are still very relevant for people who handhold a camera all day and need the whole array of professional lenses, batteries, external connections and absolute ruggedness and reliability that they provide -- in other words, mostly news, event and documentary shooters. I consider myself in that category, but I've basically resigned myself now that the good ol' shoulder mount, front viewfinder form factor is going extinct in the under-$10K price category, and I'm going to have to live with a boxy camera on a shoulder rig until I make enough money again to afford one of these. I do have an HMC80 and it's actually pretty capable for the price, but the low-light performance is mediocre.

Only the Sony EA50 from this group is a large-sensor camera; ENG shooting (and the wide-range, fast, servo zoom lenses that go with it) is basically a game for 1/3", 1/2" and 2/3" sensors. I love the versatility of a single lens that can stay on the camera all day and facilitate smooth moves and zooms, and having deeper depth of field is more often an advantage than a deficit when trying to shoot fast moving action, so that's generally OK with me.

- Greg
 
Just look around for the number of people using C300 for run n gun, sports, documentaries....If you are lucky, then you can get a second hand mint C300 at around 10K USD. Broadcast approved, smaller films can be easily cut in a macbook pro, so great for quick turnaround.
 
I used my C300 on a 3 day run n gun shoot using a RR shoulder support along with 3 Cannon primes. No problems, footage looked great and client was very happy.
 
NorBro said:
Hey guys, thanks for all the great info. The non-interchangeable comment was a typo. The type of work will mostly be run-and-gun shoots - sports/documentary. We will be traveling a lot and following moving subjects, etc. I think it's best to have a real shoulder camera and not mess around with rigging, FF systems, VFs, changing lenses, etc.

Some of the main choices..

HPX370
HPX2000
HPX3100
Sony F800
EX3

Anything else?

Here's my question: Are these cameras really still relevant? I feel like I would be taking a step back since they all run back a few years. Sometimes I see behind the scenes footage of reality TV where they will have a few cameraman...maybe two of them will be shooting on the same type of prosumer camera (medium handheld body) and one or two guys will be shooting with a shoulder camera.

Can anyone CONFIRM some of the best options that networks use out in the field whether it's for reality TV, docs, sports, run and gun type stuff?
Click to expand...


Yes, these cameras are still relevant, and will be for many years.

The Golf Channel likes F800s.
NFL Films likes the HPX3100.
Bizarre Foods has used EX3s, mixed with DSLRs.
I saw what looked like HM700s (or a variant) on Hotel Impossible.
CNBC likes P2 cams, specifically HPX2000s.
Fox News likes P2 cams. I used my HPX500 for them once.
Anthony Bourdain's Layover uses Sony F3s.

Keep in mind, all of these camera choices can change.

I worked one episode of Restaurant Impossible in 2011. Amazingly, we used standard def Panny SDX 900s, with an HVX200.
I used an HDX900 for NBC News last year. Tape ain't dead yet, but I wouldn't invest in a tape cam.
 
indiawilds said:
Just look around for the number of people using C300 for run n gun, sports, documentaries....If you are lucky, then you can get a second hand mint C300 at around 10K USD. Broadcast approved, smaller films can be easily cut in a macbook pro, so great for quick turnaround.
Click to expand...

Whoa, where have you seen a price like that?
 
Your covering a lot of ground here between sports, reality and docs. Once you say network, sports and travel in the same sentence then look at HPX3100 and Sony F800 (or similar) and forget the rest.
Reality is a different beast and so are docs. You can not cover sports without a servo zoom with a big range.

You can service high end clients with these cameras in reality and documentary. Vanvideo provides the most relevant info.
 
NorBro, as a reference, here's a thread I posted on the top rented cameras in the UK in 2012:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?301986-Top-rented-cameras-in-the-UK


Here's the list. I highlighted the cameras in yellow that are shoulder mounts:


1 (new)* Canon C300

2 (1) Arri Alexa

3 (4)Sony PDW-F800

4 (3) Canon XF305

5 (10) Red Epic

6 (8) Sony PMW-500

7 (9) Canon EOS-5D MkII/MkIII

8 (2) Sony PMW-EX3

9 (5) Sony PDW-700

10 (new) Sony F65

*the figures in brackets represent a camera’s position in last year’s poll



Note that 4 of the 5 are Sonys. The BBC bought a lot of Canon XF305s, maybe that's why it's so popular.
Oddly, no P2 cameras. Maybe P2 isn't used much in Europe?



 
NorBro said:
Hi,
This isn't news info...but..from you pros...I'm wondering what the best shoulder camera is with exceptional quality these days? For shoulder work, I've had some experience with the HPX370/HPX500,
Click to expand...

Agree on the 500, though still think it could do a number of jobs. How about this guy? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857501-REG/Panasonic_ag_hpx600pj_2_3_CCD_P2HD_Shoulder.html
Anyone out there used it that can provide OP some info? Looks like the natural progression from what you're talking about.
 
Noel Evans said:
Agree on the 500, though still think it could do a number of jobs. How about this guy? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857501-REG/Panasonic_ag_hpx600pj_2_3_CCD_P2HD_Shoulder.html
Anyone out there used it that can provide OP some info? Looks like the natural progression from what you're talking about.
Click to expand...



I have been to a workshop on the HPX600. It's unusual in that it has one 2/3" CMOS imager. If it's a 1920x1080 chip, the Bayer filter has to degrade the image some, correct? At least as far as color, I don't know, and the Panasonic reps wouldn't say what the true size of the chip is. The video looked fine to me.

It has a lot of cool features, like wi-fi video feed. You can watch the video and add metadata from a tablet or smart phone. You can even remotely control it from a tablet/phone. It can be upgraded to AVC/Ultra. It's pretty light for a 2/3" camera. I believe it's even lighter than the HPX370. Since I had an HPX500, I already have a lens, P2 cards and batteries, so I'm very interested in the camera.

But it's still not an HPX3100. It's a big step up from the HPX500, just as it's intended to be.
 
Depends on the type of look you want. For broadcast type look:

Panasonic HPX500/600
Panasonic HPX3100
Sony PDW-F800
Sony PMW-500

For a more 'cinematic' look:

Sony F5/F55
Arri Alexa

I personally dislike the image out of the C300 and it's entire form factor. Might be just me, though a lot of my colleagues also dislike it.

You might also take into consideration the weight of the camera. The Alexa is a heavy beast. Compared to say, an EX3 there's going to be a huge weight difference and that can make a big difference depending on the work you're doing.
 
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