Best Shotgun for the money

Norm Sanders

Norm Sanders

Script Wrangler
I saw in Yankee's thread of "One Mic To Rule Them All" about the AKG line of mics, and had never heard of them before.

Until I actually purchased a DVX100a last year, I knew NOTHING about cameras, etc. I just feel blessed that I listened to a few people's advice that if I ever wanted to make short films, then the DVX100a was the best bet of what was available in the prosumer range ... now that I've been able to work with it over the past year, I'd say that I've MASTERED about 10-20% of the camera's potential ... yep, still have a ways to go before I feel I've outgrown it & need to upgrade.

However, now I NEED a shotgun mic (as well as two wireless LAV's, but that's for later). I've got a sort of VIEW setting that I'll be shootiing within 2-3 weeks, and feel a shotgun will be best for this. It will be indoors, most likely in the client's livingroom or great room. However, I also want this mic to be a great, well rounded mic that will be nearly as good outdoors as it is indoors ... if I can't have both, then indoors is my preference based on the majority of work I'll be doing.

Looking at AKG's site, I'm having a difficult time being able to tell what their pricing is or where to buy ... but it doesn't matter I guess as their 2005 line's already sold out. I also see AT and Sennheiser thrown around a lot as well as Octava.

I've got between $500-700 to spend on a mic, and just need the best value for the money kind of mic. I'm sure I'll get some differing opinions, but will look forward to it.

Then, if anyone knows of a good place to get great buys on light weight boom poles w/internal XLR & shock mounts, I'd love to hear that as well. Ideally, I'm not wanting to spend more than $1K for the mic, boom pole, and shock mount.

Thanks in advance ... sorry for the noob question, which I'm sure's been asked way too many times before ... if you know of a thread that answers all this (I couldn't find it), feel free to just post it.
 
Envision the long and short of this is that you want to get the 4073a. Some people will say a lot of things in this thread, but if you are looking for a shotgun and you need a shotgun, then thats what you want in your budget.

If you are going to need more than a shotgun (interiors as well as exteriors) then go with the AKG package I recommended.

Shockmount is $75, Boompole is $100-$300, and windjammer is going to be $100-$200

Your $1000 will get you far though...

Simple: Exteriors only: 4073a
Simple: Exteriors & Interiors: AKG
 
But Matt will be here in a few minutes and give a completely different piece of advice that will be much smarter than my reply :)

I'm telling you, he is the one who I spoke with about my AKG purchase and the man is brilliant when it comes to mic suggestions and the learning curve associated with it.
 
I have owned a lot of mics, mainly because I was doing freelance location sound mixing for most of the last year and half. You can see at least some of my credentials on IMDB, Envsion, since you know my full name. Most of my stuff isn't on there yet because they're still in post and I haven't updated in a while.

The AKG 300B is hands down the best mic for the money for indoor and a lot of outdoor dialogue.
The only time I'd choose a shotgun is if there was wind, in which scenario the audio quality is a crapshoot anyways. I prefer the Sennheiser 416 in a Rycote basket. Other mics don't have the punch of this one. Neumann's are bland. Sanken is very nice, and I've used them, but you could find a Sennheiser for about half as much as a Sanken.

I don't write much on audio, because frankly, I don't think it's quite the mystery that sound guys make it out to be. Get a good mic and point in the right direction. Bam. You have good audio. Oh, perfect locations help, too.

RE: Boom poles. The ideal boom pole, I think, is one that is around 2' closed and 7-9' extended. When they're longer than this, you really should have a counterweight on the other end or it'll be impossibly heavy to hold. K-Tek makes the brass counterweight for use on their side-exit XLR poles, but it won't fit on the rear exit poles. Keep this in mind. If you don't foresee needing a long pole or a counterweight (but don't say I didn't warn ya...) then take a serious look at the VDB poles. They are better in every possible way. Now, I have owned two K-Tek's, but honestly, I LOVE the VDB poles much better than K-Tek. Until recently, you couldn't get the VDB poles because nobody had them in stock. This has changed, fortunately. They are a hair more affordable than K-Tek, but still in the 450 range for a "medium" internally cabled pole with rear exit XLR. For a budget pole, and I've never seen or used one, Cavision now has a line that's worth considering. Mainly because of the price... For the same features and construction, they are half as much as a K-Tek or VDB, which are the best brands. A 9' Carbon Fibre pole with internal XLR from Cavision is like 250-300, I think. I highly recommend the K-Tek and VDB poles, because I've used them. Cavision? The price looks good... no idea about the product, tho. Hope this helps.
 
Yankee... you are nuts. I wish you'd say that you're secretly Pam Anderson and that you've been stalking me.

I am in full agreement that sound is not the mystery that many make it out to be... I hope my posts reflect that attitude... but I also think it's harder then you might expect to get everything right. It's a question of acceptable levels of quality and just how much trouble you're willing to go to for the best result.

I don't know if this is advancing the thread any, but I'm becoming a bigger fan of AKG mics all the time.

If it's of any interest for somebody's consideration... I would have rather had the ck93 (hyper) then the ck63 (hyper) with the ULS system... the ck93 capsule is that good. I went with the more expensive AKG modular for the ck69 (gun) over the ck98 (gun)... but it was a tough call. The gist is that I don't think the 480b/ck63 combo sounds any better then the 300b/ck93 combo even though it costs hundreds more.

Just so people don't think I'm giving two-faced advice I want everyone reading my words to check the thread (or was it a PM?) where I suggested the AKG option in the first place... there's arguments both ways, but the gist is that I said with the ck93 you get a better hyper then the Oktava and with the ck98 you MIGHT get a worse shotgun then the 4073a... but I wasn't sure on that. I suggested that the 4073a was proven, but that I had such an interest in the ck93 that Yankee might try the AKG anyway. The other point is that if all you want is a hyper (because you already have a gun or have a specific gun in mind) that the Oktava route is good and much less then the 300b/ck93. So have I covered my ass on why I suggested the Blue Line AKG for Yankee but I still sometimes suggest the Oktava/4073a route? I hope so. There's a lot of previous conversation that people won't know about in this thread.
 
This is becoming like a combination of two or three threads and 5 PM's.

I think that Wells & Matt make great points. The thing with sound is that you need to just get the mic as close as possible, but having the right tools make the sound capture that much easier. I stand behind my opinion between the 98 & 4073, I think that the 4073a is a better mic by inches not feet as is the case between the 897 & 4073a.

OK, I gotta get back to watching this really bad ALDS game.
 
TheYankee said:
I stand behind my opinion between the 98 & 4073, I think that the 4073a is a better mic by inches not feet as is the case between the 897 & 4073a.
Click to expand...


I can believe this totally. I think it may not even be a matter of inches but rather taste. As I originally said to Yankee I don't have any experience with the ck98, but I had limited experience with the ck93, which was enough for me to confidently suggest it over the Oktava since he could afford it (and was moving forward with the modular concept).

I had a 416 and the ck69 at the same time and kept the AKG... again I don't think it's a matter of inches or feet... it think it's a matter of sirloin or k.c. strip... I liked both and they had a similar flavor... in the end my tastes just went with the strip.

AKG definitely has a character to their mics... and if you like it you like it... but it's not like a whole different thing... just subtle differences that appeal to certain people... and I'm one of them.

But don't freak on this... 'cause I still really like Oktavas and use them also... and I still use a 4073a if for some reason I don't have the ck69. (particular shooting partner)
 
Great stuff, guys, THANK YOU! Some of the things that have been said still go over my head, and when I have the time patience (still trying to finish my zombie short DVD for my cast) I'll google this stuff & figure it out (meaning of "better hyper ", etc.).

In the meantime, a few questions:
  1. Where to get good deals on AKG products (like EVS, but they don't carry AKG that I see)? I've seen their site, and I'm not interested in just checking out the local dealers, as my experience the local guys always cost more.
  2. Matt, you mention ck63/ck93, but I'm only seeing shotguns listed as ck69 ULS and ck98. Are these what you're talking about, or were you not referring to shotguns? The ck69ULS looked cool, as it had basically two modes you could use it for, but I have no clue on pricing.
  3. Brian, you mention the 300B, but when I'm searching their site, I'm only coming across a C-3000B ... is that what you're talking about? This doesn't appear to be a unidirectional mic, though, which is what I thought I'd want so that the mic is pointed AT the sound source, and not picking up so much surrounding noise ... that, and with a shotgun I assumed I could have the mic farther away, still pick up sound just as well, AND keep it out of frame (filming shorts, video work, etc.).
  4. Also, Brian, thanks for the feedback on the poles as well! I appreciate what you're saying about the tested products, but here's where my ignorance comes in ... the products seem pretty simple, so I'm wondering how bad the lower priced ones could be screwed up, or how they could really be lacking in comparison to the more expensive brands ... that said, I'm sure having the extensions actually lock into place could be a concerns, as well as long lasting wear of those issues (joints, connectors, etc.).
So, I guess before I go any further, and partly because of what Brian (thisiswells) has mentioned about rarely using a shotgun, I need to figure out the type of tool I really need before I worry about brand & pricing. Basically, I've always thought that I wanted a good indoor/outdoor shotgun mic, and a couple of good wireless lavs.

Hmmm.
 
Matt in St. Louis and I are basically talking about the same mic. The C300B is an AKG body which powers the CK93 capsule. Or, C300B/CK93 combo. They are packaged as separate components! (?) As a complete microphone, they'll go for around $400 about anywhere. I have ordered from Trew Audio and Coffee Sound both. Good experiences at both shops. It doesn't pretend to be a Schoeps, but it's still a mighty fine mic for the almighty prosumer dollar!

Dunno what to tell you about the cheaper poles. Traditionally, the good poles are made of lightweight materials (carbon fiber), disassemble easier for cleaning (especially in the case of VDB, where the user can take the entire thing apart without any tools!), and more importantly the good poles will extend far and collapse short. The cheap and midrange poles are heavy-er, they rattle and flex at stress points because of the aluminum construction, are complicated to service, and don't extend far or collapse short. The Cavision, at least on paper, looks as full featured as the high end poles. I'm not a fan of any other Cavision product, but the boom poles look alright.


Also, no matter which pole you get, remember that straight cables will not rattle endlessly like the internal coiled cables. The latter is well suited for news or doc work, but really unnecessary for narrative when there is time to run a cable... Still a helpful and quite popular option to have, but pretty worthless on windy days! Anyways, Good luck!
 
Wow man... we've been talking like friends a lot in PM's so take this as a friend, but you need to read the audio forum more!

1) email cavell@rvacanada.com then check currency exchange for USD... then compare that with a quote from Trew.
2) yes
3) yes... and both the 300b and 480b are the mic bodies/PS for the ck93 and ck63... which are the hyper capsules for each respective modular system.
4) the difference in good poles and cheap poles is in weight, construction, quality of ALL the hardware, minimum and maximum length, special features, and internal cabling or no cabling. All of these things play a role in how much you'll like whatever pole you choose. I think the best boom value right now is the K-Tek KE110CC for $219 shipped from B&H... or the Gitzo 7680c from Adorama for around $229 (this one is longer min/max, no cable, heavier but CF construction, probably not as durable as the K-Tek).

Finally you didn't number this one, but there is no good indoor shotgun mic which is why I started this post as I did. There are really good shotgun mics that CAN do SOME interiors, but it's rare... both for the shotgun and the interiors... and unless your shotgun budget is pushing a grand I'd forget about shotguns indoors.
 
MattinSTL said:
Wow man... we've been talking like friends a lot in PM's so take this as a friend, but you need to read the audio forum more!
Click to expand...

Wow, is right! I am SO clueless at audio ... um, I'd say it's a close second to lighting, which I still have long way to go at ... really, I'd say my only strength to date is editing, so I've just got a lot of catch up all over the place. As time allows, I do plan on spending more time in the audio forum ... as if I don't spend too much of my life on DVXuser as it is! :cheesy:

Thanks Matt & Brian again for the additional feedback ... specifically some great stuff on the poles. Never thought about an issue of having the coiled XLR rattling inside the pole, but it makes sense. Just love that conveniene factor of it as well, and not having the boom operator tripping over the cord as much, or having to wrap it around the pole, etc.

My biggest mental rewiring is to get away from the idea of shotguns in doors ... I've just always thought (probably heard it from a hack somewhere) that it's what I wanted, but I'm so new to this I can't honestly say what I need/want.

Sorry for the noob questions (don't worry, I know you guys aren't irritated with me on it), and I'll check the forum out more, and research hyperr/shotgun stuff some more before my purchase here in a couple weeks.

Thanks again!!!
 
The reason the ME series is so popular (other than hype) is because it is modular. You can buy the K6 and have any type of cap to put on it to work for a varierty of environments. The AKG is this fully realized. It sounds great and works like a horse on steriods. The sound is excellent. Look at the enviornment that you are working in and figure out what is going to work best for you.

One final note regarding boom poles, as I think was suggested, I stay away from anything with a cord inside of it. I have these zelcro straps and use those to anchor the cable down (plus I still love the sound that zelcro makes).

Whatever option you choose I am sure you will be happy. I can see the AKG picking up in popularity here. I am using just a foam windshield on it inside and have no problems with it, so when you factor the softie and oktava vs. the foam and AKG 300B & CK93 they are the same price. Interesting and crazy stuff, eh?
 
I'm not saying that they are equal, I'm just saying that I use foam and have no problems with handling noise or moving the mic
 
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