best option for stereo ambience

Mark A. Beal

Mark A. Beal

Well-known member
I have an Oktava and 4073a for recording dialog and sync sound. I'd like to also capture some stereo ambience while I'm on location. I need to keep it simple since I am sometimes one man banding it, so I don't want to get into multi mic setups. The two options I've come up with are to feed a stereo mic into the camera (in which case, my question is: what sub-$1,000 mics would you recommend?) or would it be better use something like a Zoom H-4?
 
You don't say what kind of camera you're using, but does it have a stereo mic input? Or two mono inputs?

I like the Zoom H4. The Zoom H2 is also nice, and less expensive -- but no XLR inputs. The H2 will do a surround sound with the built-in mics, though.
 
be mindful of how your current mic will interact with the new mic as far as phasing and/or intermodulation. This often happens when picking up the same sound source from 2 mics in 2 different positions. A stereo mic typically doesn't have phasing issues b/c they place the diaphrams in a manner which are in phase relative to one another.
Shure makes a really good mic which solves this problem very well:
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_VP88_content

and it's well within your budget too.
 
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YES, Tigeba said, get a matching MK from Sound Room... you just send them yours and they find one that matches it best. Then you just get a little adapter for two mounts... and the Robe M3 works very well with the tiny and light MK-012a so the mounts would be cheap... $40 each or something like so... It will work for interiors and quiet locations, or tight shots. And like Talldr mentioned,be very mindful of their orientation respective to each other... you will find tons of diagrams if you do a search on Google. Then just make sure you don't make them get crooked on the little mount when you swing it.

Or you can get the VP-88 (I don't know which are good).

The two MK-012's and the extra mount cost you $440
That's if you go with dual M3's... but if you have shotgun that you
want to use for mono exteriors with your current shock mount you
will either have mis-matching mounts or buy one more like the one
you have. No idea which that is?

Or the VP-88 from Shure will cost you about $700
 
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Stereo Phase problems

Stereo Phase problems

To solve any phasing problems with your mics, take two of the same mics, put them on a "stereo bar" (thats what they call what you mount multiple mics on one stand). Then place the diaphragms at 90 degrees to each other as close as you can without touching. It's called a coincident pair or an X/Y set up depending who you ask. It has great stereo imaging and virtually no phase problems.

If your budget is $1000, I recomend getting a matched pair of Rode NT-5's (about $430). The pair is small and will fit in your jeans pocket. They are very sensitive and can be used for other SFX, especially quiet SFX. The Rode NT-4 (about $530) is two NT-5's on one mic body in an X/Y pattern. Worth looking into.

If you're looking to go dirt cheap, get two Sure PG-81's. I've used them for SFX and ambiance and been very pleased. A pair should run you under $300. Then you could buy whatever you need to get them into the camera. The Sure SM-81's are about $350 each, but are probably better then the PG-81's. Neither pair are "small", but you could cary them in your back pocket instead of your front.

Hope I could help.
 
I forgot that what Mark is llooking for ambience... so I guess the Oktaba might be a problem without a two channels with clean pre-amps since the signal is low... but a MixPre would solve this.
 
Thanks for the input. The NT-4 is actually the mic I was most interested in. Here's a question: how would it sound plugged directly into the HVX? I ask because I'll be using an MM-1 with the other mics, but for the stereo recording, my options would be: use the NT-4 directly to the camera, or get a Mixpre and go with a less expensive mic (I'm thinking AT-825).
 
Use the built in stereo mic set to record on to ch's 3 & 4.

Get some foam and fur and make your own softie for it by taping it to the camera around the mic.
 
The NT-4 will sound just fine plugged into the camera, the mic is designed for stereo recording, it's a good mic. So get the mic & go to work!

Often the less wires and electronics you have between mic and recorder, the better the signal, why?... because each unit can & often does, contribute noise. All devices create noise, so less units is often a better recorded signal/noise ratio. You can test the mic to camera performance and see if it's clean enough for you, if not then you'll need another route, mixer to recorder. I think the HVX & DVX will sound pretty good as a recording device for ambient recordings.
 
It would make sense to put it on the camera for ambiance. And even the Oktaba which has a very weak signal sounds very decent on the HVX's pre-amps. So I would guess it should work.

How do stereo mics work? Do they feed two channels though one XLR? I suppose that is the only way. So would the HVX recognize the two channels and split them onto the two channels you selected for the same input? And would you have to switch on both phantoms?
 
USLatin said:
How do stereo mics work? Do they feed two channels though one XLR? I suppose that is the only way. So would the HVX recognize the two channels and split them onto the two channels you selected for the same input? And would you have to switch on both phantoms?
Click to expand...

I haven't ever used one, but I believe the cable splits into two XLR outputs so you plug it into both channels.
 
USLatin said:
Oh... but can you use a normal XLR? ANd is all they give you like a Y cable from female to double male?
Click to expand...

Again, my experience so far is with mono mics, but my understanding is that you use a specifically stereo XLR cable that splits the signal and sends it to the appropriate input.

But going back to my earlier question, what I'm wondering is if (bearing in mind that my background/ambience will generally be turned fairly low in the sound mix), does the NT-4 produce an acceptibly clean sound using the HVX's built in preamps? Its seems the consensus is that I should be okay.
 
Yes, the Rode is clean and the HVX is acceptable. Rode mics are well built.

And you could use the NT-4 to record mono also :undecided, just dump one track, or mute it!... of course you might do this in a pinch, otherwise there are better mics for normal mono recording. See if the Y-cord comes with the mic.
 
I believe the NT4's 5-pin XLR output uses the pin configuration common to most other stereo mics. If you do opt for this mic, be sure to acquire a spare XLR5-f to 2xXLR3-m cable.

That kind of custom cable is expensive to buy, but its a cinch to make yourself. You can use the same Canare StarQuad cable stock that's proven so popular for 3-pin mic cables, you just wind up using all four lines (as well as the screen). 5-pin Neutrik XLR's are more expensive than the 3-pin models, but they're still pretty reasonable.

Just double check that all the pins are propperly wired.
 
Thanks to those with the answers. Also I guess you could get a small tiny Y cable and end up using two normal XLR's of the same length together. I don't think you would want to use it as a mono, unless you were listening to only one channel on your headphones, then you would know which it is and be good to go... I still like the idea of getting a second Oktaba, just cause it is so cheap and you can always use them in different configurations... or use them as mono and double it up with two booms. Anyone think this might be just making your life harder for no good benefits?
 
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