Best microphone to record elk sounds ???

C

c3hammer

Well-known member
Crazy question for all you hardcore audio guys.

What mic would you suggest to record elk bugles and the quieter elk sounds?

I have phantom power available to the end of an 8' boom pole. Will be using a dead cat as well. I want to record simultaneously in mono on the boom pole with the other chanel from a dpa 4061 lav mic on the camera man. I'll mix down to proper stereo in post.

I need this setup to record documentaries with people talking actually, but wanted to get an idea of what mics might work best for elk outdoors in the dark timber, then hope it works well for vocals :)

Cheers,
PEte
 
I would use the new Sennheiser MKH 8060. It is a great all-round gun mic. (being the replacement for the MKH 416, really), but it also has a good bottom end to pick up that wonderful low end resonation of the Elk. It is an RF condenser that works well in damp and humid conditions that cause other mics to go noisy and crackly. I would probably also get the optional MZF 8000 filter module so you can roll-off the bass end when you don't need it (eg: for speech).
 
If you're recording in a noisy environment, you might also want to take a look at the Sanken CS-3e for the best noise rejection.
 
c3hammer said:
Crazy question for all you hardcore audio guys.

What mic would you suggest to record elk bugles and the quieter elk sounds?

I have phantom power available to the end of an 8' boom pole. Will be using a dead cat as well. I want to record simultaneously in mono on the boom pole with the other chanel from a dpa 4061 lav mic on the camera man. I'll mix down to proper stereo in post.

I need this setup to record documentaries with people talking actually, but wanted to get an idea of what mics might work best for elk outdoors in the dark timber, then hope it works well for vocals :)

Cheers,
PEte
Click to expand...

Um, you can't mix down to a Proper stereo" with that mic configuration. You have two mono tracks with different mics with radically different perspectives. You can spread it out and have it cover both speakers but you won't have stereo.

Anyway, I would say it probably depends on what your after. I would probably go our with a cardioid (pair but in your case just one). Schoeps would be nice Oktava are a good cheap alternative. If your going to be line of sight and are trying for a single guy then the short shotgun might be a better choice. The reason I would lean to cardioid or hyper is that your out there in the woods and I probably would want the call more IN the environment. But that is an aesthetic call. The one thing you do want out there is a very quiet mic and if applicable the quietest preamp you can get.
 
How close will you be able to get to the elk? Would a parabolic be appropriate? (Don't know-- asking the experienced field recording guys/gals)...

GJ
 
Thanks John!

How directional is the MKH 8060? When ever I've been in the middle of the mix with these elk going crazy there always seems to be as many five bulls screaming and thus the need is to capture from all directions simultaneously.

Cheers,
PEte
 
c3hammer said:
Thanks John!

How directional is the MKH 8060? When ever I've been in the middle of the mix with these elk going crazy there always seems to be as many five bulls screaming and thus the need is to capture from all directions simultaneously.

Cheers,
PEte
Click to expand...

It has the same directivity as the MKH 416, but with a better off-axis response (as well as being quieter and better as it's about 35 years newer).

I think I would clip a fig-8 on the top and turn it into MS stereo - you could use an MKH 30, a Neumann KK120+KM-A or the new miniature Ambient ATE 208 Emesser which is very small and light.
 
Noiz2 said:
Um, you can't mix down to a Proper stereo" with that mic configuration. You have two mono tracks with different mics with radically different perspectives. You can spread it out and have it cover both speakers but you won't have stereo.
Click to expand...
I was hoping for a 60/40 pan of each to effectively end up like a naration over the action, but recorded simultaneously?

I'm starting out with an H4N so I'm screwed right off the bat for a quiet preamp, but I might be able to use the audio from the xy pair as well to give it a bit more space. Suggestions?

Cheers,
Pete
 
I like the idea of the 8060, but I would also maybe consider running a good stereo mic at the same time, or a stereo pair of 8060's.

Whatever you end up doing, I'd be really interested in hearing your recordings. I LOVE nature recordings.
 
@ John,

Ugh Ohhhh!!! Now I'm in over my head :)

That link for the ATE 208 looks like the gold standard, but with that I'd need to sort out another solution for 4-channel recording.

Also, I should have prefaced that I probably need to keep it near $400 or so for this mic. Sorry for not starting with that, but I appreciate knowing where to go for top end.

Cheers,
Pete
 
c3hammer said:
I was hoping for a 60/40 pan of each to effectively end up like a naration over the action, but recorded simultaneously?

I'm starting out with an H4N so I'm screwed right off the bat for a quiet preamp, but I might be able to use the audio from the xy pair as well to give it a bit more space. Suggestions?

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...

A 60/30 would have been better as you need a fig-8 for MS stereo.

The new 8060 is better than the older 60 (and both are better than the old 416).

If you want less side lobes the 50 or 8050 is a good choice. This is the same as the 60/8060 at low frequencies, but stays this way throughout the frequency spectrum as there is no interference tube to give greater directivity at higher frequencies.

I do quite like the look of the new Ambient fig-8 as it is so small and light and does not add the weight that other fig-8 mics do.
 
c3hammer said:
@ John,

Ugh Ohhhh!!! Now I'm in over my head :)

That link for the ATE 208 looks like the gold standard, but with that I'd need to sort out another solution for 4-channel recording.

Also, I should have prefaced that I probably need to keep it near $400 or so for this mic. Sorry for not starting with that, but I appreciate knowing where to go for top end.

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...

Actually that ATE 208 kit is surprisingly inexpensive. Much cheaper than the other options.

For inexpensive 4-channel recording I would have gone for the Tascam DR-608 or the Edirol R-44 personally (I think the Tascam has better figures than the Edirol). But as I use a Nagra VI I haven't looked very closely at the lower end.

One thing to remember, though - buy a good mic. and it will last you 30 years or more, so you don't have to buy again. Anything computer based lasts 5-minutes.
 
John Willett said:
I do quite like the look of the new Ambient fig-8 as it is so small and light and does not add the weight that other fig-8 mics do.
Click to expand...
Am I missing something, is that an updated version? I've known the Emesser for a couple of years so I wouldn't exactly call it...

With 400 $ I'd put the M/S idea out of my head. The lowest price for a decent sounding figure of eight to my knowledge is getting the Oktava 8-capsule (plus a preamp) but that capsule is quite large in dimensions, compared to something like the Emesser!
 
c3hammer said:
I was hoping for a 60/40 pan of each to effectively end up like a naration over the action, but recorded simultaneously?

I'm starting out with an H4N so I'm screwed right off the bat for a quiet preamp, but I might be able to use the audio from the xy pair as well to give it a bit more space. Suggestions?

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...

There is no problem with that but it's not a stereo signal. It's kind of moot here but it's a distinction to keep i the back of your mind.

You could try the XY also but it's likely to have some phase issues. It sounds like your in a very wide environment so again I would lean toward a not too directional mic. You mentioned voice. If by voice you mean booming people out side then the wider mic won't be great for that. If you mean things like VO then it will probably be better than a shotgun.

I though the H4n was suposed to have better pres than the H4 and I know a bunch of pros who really liked the H4. Don't know personally but if they are noisy then maybe there is a setting that should be changed.
 
Here's a sample what what I'm trying to improve on. This had one elk about 30' away and another about 150 yards out. It is from an on-board 5.1 surround system with AGC on. As you can imagine it will be extremely difficult to film and adjust audio levels simultaneously in the heat of the moment.

http://vimeo.com/25161902

Now I'm intrigued by the M/S concept for what I'm trying to do, but don't know if I can add in the lav mic without the phase issues. My only audio experience is recording and mixing two mics for accoustic instruments. I now know full well the critical nature of mic placement and orientation to get that to work.

I think it would be foolish to spend a couple grand on mics here not knowing if I can even work it all out in the heat of the moment. Particularly the audio levels issue with me behind the mics and some of the critters out as far as 300 yards all while trying to film.

I'm open to other options and appreciate the discussion so far.

Cheers,
PEte
 
C3, I gotta tell you, you really caught me off guard with this thread. "Elk Calls?" Your question is a very valid one, but it definitely gave me a chuckle because of the subject matter.

Thank you, and I hope you can get a decent answer. I have been racking my brain about it, despite my laughing. "How would I record elks/elkeses in the wild?" The only elks we have in CA are the ones with funny hats.

Let me ask this: Would you be able to pinpoint the source quickly, if you were out in the field? I ask because if you are listening in one area, but a call is heard in another, swinging the mic around to catch the call might cause a definite shift. I am wondering if a wired Omni, set up at a distance to catch every call without directionality would work. Then mix it through 5.1 and change each call's position in the 5.1 sound field.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top