Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

A

Antoine_Fabi

Well-known member
What do you think is the best master Ped setting to achieve the best filmic look ?

The DVX100 and DVX100A both came with factory setting at -5 whit cine gamma, quite contrasty...
On the opposite, setting at 0 seems to br on the "light" side...compared to a Hollywood 35mm DVD.

-3 seems to hit the target of about 0 ire when i close the iris...

so i'm a little confused.

thanks
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Jarred Land,

I'm familiar with these settings (though i always use 0 ire for digital editing), but i wonder which one of these master ped settings brings the "more" filmic look...

It "seems" (for now) that -3 with cinelike and cinelike D works well, but i would like to have your opinion.

what do you think ?
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

It's not all about the "settings" and "set up" since that only affects the black level of objects being recorded. It's really about how much or little detail you want to show in the final program from the captured material. If you don't capture it in the first place, then you won't be able to bring it back later. The film look is also the way all levels are treated (including mid-range) and how the curves are tweaked to give a film look. I just posted a color correction example on my website that shows the steps one can take to achieve that look regardless of system used. In my example, I used Avid - but any system with RGB curves color control can recreate the same color correction.

http://www.24p.com/colorcorrection.htm
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

good original grabs (as usual with the SDX), but i think those were taken with the master ped set on the light side, no ?

I like the way you processed the images very much, really great work,  but some details on very dark objects are lost, see on the black metal structure behind Pete...

what were the master ped, gamma and chroma settings on the SDX ? , just curious.


...the DVX is also on the light side when master ped is set to 0 combined to cinegamma...it shows 2 to 4 ire on the waveform monitor with a closed iris...
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

ok i tried doing the setup for 0 ire and everything was wicked dark.

with 7.5 everything looks pretty good to me.

am i missing something?

matthew
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

The SDX was right out of the box, standard default settings from what I am told. As far as the black levels in the corrected image - that is where the subjective look and feel decisions are made. Seeing detail on the post behind Pete was not crucial to the scene. More improtanbtly was balancing his shot out against the other man from cut to cut so it didn't jump every time an edit passed. The AutoCorrect feature takes the blackest part of the scene and makes it digital TV legal of 16 RGB. That is the example in the second set of pictures, but overall, the look and feel weren't right. Detail in shadows, and how much you want to show, not to show or is relevant to the story is part of the artistic choices made in the program. I found Van Helsing to be very dark with not a whole lot of detail shown - especially interiors. That was a choice the director and DOP made during the digital grading session.

It's all art - no wrong or right way other than being within legal specifications for broadcast so your show doesn't get rejected.

Michael
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Here is a table I did when the first DVX100 camera came out. It shows the RGB level for black based on Master Pedestal to SetUp relationship. Depending on what you want to create for absolute black (these were done with lens cap on - so no light at all) you set the menu to achieve whatever RGB level of black you want to create.

Digital Television specification for PAL and NTSC for 8 bit video is 16 RGB for black, and 235 for white. If going out to film, then you can go 0 - 255.

http://www.24p.com/dvx.htm

Michael
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Michael,

great info. great chart !

The DVX100A seems to have a little different behavior, but i did not test it extensively as you did with the original DVX100.

I agree, this has to do with the look i want to have in "my" film.

Jarred Land,

The very very funny thing with your setup grabs is that the original DVX shows a much better dynamic range with the setup at 7.5, no matter what is the master ped level !!!
Look at the details in the shadow.
7.5 ire at -8 master ped kills the 0 ire at -3 master ped (corresponding black level)
7.5 ire at -5 master ped kills the 0 ire at 0 master ped

So it seems that it is better to use the 7.5 ire setting AND dial down the master ped setting.

Thanks to both of you for all this very usefull info !

I,m going to make some experiments to see if the DVX100A has (as the DVX100) better dynamic range with 7.5 ire.
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

As you can see in the chart, if setting the master pedestal too low, the chips just cut off and nothing more is ever captured. Certainly having the SetUp at 7.5 will give you more "headroom" at the low end that one set at 0 for the same master pdestal - but as the chart shows, you can create the same black level with either one.

I have done some quick testing with the "A" model and it is indeed diffeent since they fixed the difference between 0 and 7.5 as being 7.5 of difference compared to the 2.5 difference in the older model.
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

"but as the chart shows, you can create the same black level with either one."

that's it !

But even more, for a very same black level, the original DVX render more details in the shadows with 7.5 ire combined with dialed down master ped. That's funny...
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

OK, did the setup test today with my DVX100A.

The difference (amount of visible details in dark areas) between 0 ire and 7.5 ire is not as pronounced as with the original DVX100, but i actually see an improvement when i use 7.5 ire and dialing down the master ped control.

for a comparable black level, say 0 ire at mast ped -5 compared to 7.5 ire at mast ped -7, i can see more details and crisper overall dark objects with the 7.5 ire setup.

I,m curious to know "why"...
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Hi all,

One question. How do I set the Set-Up to 0? I go to the menu, and under Camera Set-up, there is no option to change Set-up...

Am I looking in the wrong place. I have checked elsewhere but with no luck.

I use a MP of -6 btw.

Lee
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

From the flag in your profile, I'm assuming you're in PAL territory? If you're using a PAL camera, there should not be an option for setup -- that's an NTSC-only thing.
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Thanks Barry - sorry for long time reply. Been on holiday and using my Panny.

Yes I have a PAL DVX100. So if there is no option, I guess it would be automatically set to 0?

Thanks.

Lee
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Yes, zero. Setup exists only in North American NTSC, the Japanese version of NTSC doesn't even have it, and PAL doesn't have it either, so something you don't have to even think about.
 
Re: Best Master Ped for Filmic look ?

Michael

Super job of color correction and nice job explaining it as well.


--Bop
 
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