Best lens length for Master shot?

Elmy

Elmy

Well-known member
Ok So I'm just starting to get accustomed to my 35mm adapter and I was wondering what lens length (50mm, 24mm, 85mm?...) is best for master shots or wide shots (idk exact term, I'm assuming Master Shot is closest). Reason I ask is because it seems with my 50mm that I cant get an overall image in focus, and not sure if it even has to do with the lens length. I'm just really experiencing this stuff first hand. Anyways whats happen with my prime Nikon 50mm is when I want to just have a large amount of the image focused on (But still have that "film" look of an adapter) I can't do it, its to "pin point" of a focus. Does this have to do with the lens length? Or am I just being...ignorant?
 
That's an extremely broad question and there is certainly no "best" lens for a master shot.

Every movie and every scene has different requirements based on the story, the director's vision, the space constraints of the location....

What your describing though is a combination of two things...
1. Wide Aperture (low number, lens probably reading 1.7, 2.0 ect...) This results in a shot that takes less light, but also lowers the depth of field. The light loss due to using a 35mm adapter though means you need a LOT of light to use a normal aperture setting and get some depth of field back. If you don't have enough light, then you may need to find a style that uses the shallow DoF to your advantage, and/or pick angles where it's less noticeable.
2. Lens Length, which is the result of a 50mm. Using something like a 24mm is pretty common to get more into the shot. But aperture is likely about 70% of the problem.
 
oh ok, thank you, helped answer my question, my 50mm has a very low aperture which makes sense. I'm just use to growing up using a DSLR with variable aperture and so never having this issue, to going to this adapter, learning what it means to really fool with lenses, I like it. this is why I enjoy cinematography the most.

I realize every scene is different and up to my stylistic choice, I guess I meant to be broad in the sense that I'm just looking for a very basic deep focus master shot, and can't achieve it with my current lens.
 
Elmy said:
I realize every scene is different and up to my stylistic choice, I guess I meant to be broad in the sense that I'm just looking for a very basic deep focus master shot, and can't achieve it with my current lens.
Click to expand...

As has been pointed out and you have confirmed. There is no right or wrong. You can use any lens as the lens for a master shot. Any.

But if you want deep DoF, it really doesn't benefit you to decide on the 50mm because it has a low aperture. You'll most likely find that you will be needing to stop it down anyhow, making it's advantage nigh. Choose your lens based off of the AoV and how you would like the background to appear.

The exceptions to this rule (when open apperatures can have deep DoF) are the following... if you happen to use a wide enough lens and can be far enough away from the subject. This is characteristic of a REALLY wide shot, which is more then you will probably want. Therefore, you will need to stop that lens down, making open aperature advantages useless.
 
Here's a link to a depth of field calculator.

Set your format size (I am blindly assuming that a 35 adaptor for video has a GG the size of Academy 35, but I could be wrong, depending on how far in you have to zoom on the GG due to vignetting, bad centering, etc.), your focal length, your aperture, and your focus distance and the calculator will tell you how much will be in focus.

Keep in mind that DOF is a tool to be used, not a requirement to be overcome. Lens choice, in the perfect world, revolves around perspective, framing, and depth. Making a lens choice around space constrictions, ease of use, etc. should be avoided as much as you can.
 
Elmy said:
so would a 24mm f2.8 be good for what I'm describing?
Click to expand...

You really are not describing anything.... You want deep dof, right? That is easily attainable with any lens, given you can stop the lens down. If you cannot stop the lens down (ie you just do not have any lights or etc) then, yes, the wider the lens and the farther you are from the subject will deepen the DOF.... but beware, wider lenses can distort, show an AoV you may not desire, or be too wide.

Use that previous DoF calculator link and experiment. The BEST way to get the shot you want is to evaluate the AoV you desire, then have the proper lighting to adjust the DoF to your liking, using the aperature.
 
sorry if I'm being vauge, I guess it's because there is no shot I'm going for right now, its just out of curiosity of how the best way to get deep focus, you answered that though thank you, I just wasn't sure if it was a certain lens length or aperture.
 
No worries. I was just telling you that aperture is the best way to get your shot. Using an ultra wide lens and moving away from the subject can get you deep DoF, but you'll most likely be forced to shoot a shot different from what you envisioned. By using a small aperture, you can choose the perfect lens length you want for the image.
 
Chuck the 35mm adapter ... use your cameras lens ... and open the iris if you want shallow depth of field.
 
I think the problem is this question is somewhat misguided from the outset.
what lens you use is dictated by what the shot is trying to accomplish. Granted a "Master Shot" generally serves a certain kind of purpose ( establish the location of the characters in their world and in relation to each other and show them interacting) there are a lot of other factors that are dictated by the scene and the space where you're shooting, etc.

A better question would probably be "what lens do you use most often for your master shots"
 
I think a problem is that master shot is meaningful in terms of editing structure, not in terms of focal lengths.

The master shot around which a sequence is constructed could be taken with literally any lens at all, depending upon the effect the DP is after and the use to which the editor will put the shot, when cutting.
 
Last edited:
Sad Max said:
I think a problem is that master shot is meaningful in terms of editing structure, not in terms of focal lengths.

The master shot around which a sequence is constructed could be taken with literally any lens at all, depending upon the effect the DP is after and the use to which the editor will put the shot, when cutting.
Click to expand...

In scriptwriting one is admonished these days to write scenes in 'master scene/shot' mode, that is without regard to what a camera may frame, or a director/cinematographer may setup with a real camera.

Further, Scorsese was bounced from "The Honeymoon Killers"(1970), because he shot, or whatever portion he had shot to that moment, the film entirely in 'master shot' mode...

While that doesn't answer the question of what angle of view one would need, which is the 'real' question, for a given 'master' shot, it does suggest the term has more than just an editorial usage.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
In scriptwriting one is admonished these days to write scenes in 'master scene/shot' mode, that is without regard to what a camera may frame, or a director/cinematographer may setup with a real camera.
Click to expand...

I think that's about conserving valuable page space rather than wasting it on detailed camera direction that will more likely than not be ignored...

j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Further, Scorsese was bounced from "The Honeymoon Killers"(1970), because he shot, or whatever portion he had shot to that moment, the film entirely in 'master shot' mode...
Click to expand...

Comparatively wide shots, framing all the action, leaving few if any editing options down the road. The bounce - under the circumstances described - makes sense.

j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
While that doesn't answer the question of what angle of view one would need, which is the 'real' question, for a given 'master' shot, it does suggest the term has more than just an editorial usage.
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends upon how you view the flow of production. Various compositions can function in various ways and to different purposes based upon how the scene is assembled editorially, so their editorial function impresses me as the most significant aspect of their relationship.
 
Your master shot is the main shot that includes as much of the entire scene as possible and is generally what is shot first so that if there is no time for cutaways, you at least have the whole scene as a "master". Get it? And no one ever says "MASTER SHOT" in a script. Ever. That's for non-film schools. You might say WIDE or CU in a script -- maybe -- but only because it's very important to what the author is trying to say visually. Otherwise, those decisions are made by the director (as aided by the DP, production designer, yadda yadda).

As far as what lens? Depends on the scene. A wide lens like a 14 or a 24 or a 35 might work, but you won't get much of a noticeable shallow depth of field. I prefer the 50 1.4 Zeiss as a personal preference on any of my shots whether they're masters or CU's. Beautiful bokeh, too, that lens...8 blade aperture...lovely...

Really, you should go get three prime lenses for your rig. Something like a 24, a 50 or 85 and a 100-something. That will take care of you for a long time. You could conceivably get a wide to normal zoom like a 17-40, 24-80 or something like that but zooms aren't nearly as fast and therefore the focus probably won't be shallow enough for what you may want.
 
Ok I didn't mean to cause such a fuss, the point of my post was I was trying to figure out how to deepen my focus, My 50 1.8 seems to have a very shallow focus in the center, and I wanted for wider shots to have more stuff in focus and wasn't sure if that was a lens issue, lighting issue, or what not, It was answered a bit ago though. I currently only have a 50, due to me having no money I'm yet to afford a 24, and an 85, which are my two next lenses. thank you though
 
All things being equal:
1. Select lens based on the FOV you need
2. Select apature based on the depth of field you need
3. Select shutter speed based on exposure you need (and contraints such as motion blur)
Go back and forward between 2 and 3 until you get what you need.
Remember you can move the camera.
 
Last edited:
MrFluffy said:
All things being equal:
1. Select lens based on the FOV you need
2. Select aperture based on the depth of field you need
3. Select shutter speed based on exposure you need (and constraints such as motion blur)
Go back and forward between 2 and 3 until you get what you need.
Remember you can move the camera.
Click to expand...

This works if you have to change shutter speed to expose while keeping the desired aperture (DoF)... (which is only those time where you simply do not have enough light) but I would recommend many other ways, outside of changing the shutter.

The decision of which shutter speed to use should be based on your story & desired look/feel... and not based on exposure you need, because there is almost nothing more distracting or more noticeable then changing shutter speeds between shots or within a scene. This is a bad distraction unless you are doing it to achieve a certain feeling within the photography or the moment in the story. Like mentioned, if your lens is set at the F-Stop you need, and you do not have enough light, there is very little you can do but to force the hand of shutter speed.

Options other then changing shutter speed or aperture shooting stop (DoF) if you need more light entering the camera for exposure: (not in particular order)
1) Light with larger lighting units
2) Move the lights closer to the subject
3) Change the cameras sensitivity rating or add incriminates of gain

Options other then changing shutter speed or aperture shooting stop (DoF) if you need less light entering the camera for exposure: (not in particular order)
1) Scrim or ND gel the lights
2) Dim lighting units & correct for color balance with gels or wb
3) Use smaller lighting units
4) Move the lights further from the subject
4) Change camera sensitivity if possible
5) Apply internal or exterior glass ND filters
Click to expand...

I'd warn against using the shutter as the way to control your exposure. This works much better in still photography, but not as well as you can see the effects with greater accuracy when things are in motion. I'd use it as a last resort... tied up there with using gain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top