Best Audio for Concert?

wilsonhvx

wilsonhvx

Active member
So, my friends are in an outdoor concert that they're wanting me to tape. Previously, I recorded them in a theater and ran a long XLR cable down the side of the theater where no one was sitting and ended up with pretty decent audio coming out of the speakers. My question is, what can I do for this upcoming show, because there is no way of running a cable where people will be walking,standing, and jumping to the stage from the back where my cam will be set up? The main problem is that I don't have a wireless mic system, though I may be able to borrow one from a friend.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Can you get something else to record with? The best audio, which is what you asked for, comes from a feed coming out of the mixer and into a recorder setup in a convenient place; such as with the band's equipment.
 
Casalen said:
Can you get something else to record with? The best audio, which is what you asked for, comes from a feed coming out of the mixer and into a recorder setup in a convenient place; such as with the band's equipment.
Click to expand...


Good point, the feed coming out of the mixer would be the best, though i'm not sure what i would record it onto. I've heard of running an xlr cable from the mixer to your camera can cause some serious problems, but is there an xlr "field recorder" or how would you recommend it?
 
There should be no problems going from the board straight into your camera. There are stant-alone recorders available. I use the zoom h4, it has 2 xlr inputs and records to sd cards. But my reccomendation is to get an output from the mixing board and put it into your camera and set your levels to -5 or -10 dB so as not to peak if the FoH enginner like it hot.
 
david335 said:
There should be no problems going from the board straight into your camera. There are stant-alone recorders available. I use the zoom h4, it has 2 xlr inputs and records to sd cards. But my reccomendation is to get an output from the mixing board and put it into your camera and set your levels to -5 or -10 dB so as not to peak if the FoH enginner like it hot.
Click to expand...

Cool, that looks like a nice recorder, i'm considering this since it's not that expensive.
thanks for the tip!
 
I think that you will get a better expereance out of the video if you record it with a shotgun microphone
 
NoDice said:
I think that you will get a better expereance out of the video if you record it with a shotgun microphone
Click to expand...

I'm not partial to recording with a shotgun, it's just too narrow a pickup pattern for a spread-out source such as a band. A 'gun from the back of the back of the house would pickup far too much of the crowd, plus the time delay versus the picture can lead to sync problems.

Not too happy with doing a board feed either. Not all of the band is necessarily miced so a PA feed can be missing instruments. The board op is going to be setting up for what sounds good to the audience - equalization and setting levels and such - and that's rarely right for recording.
 
Plugging into the board is your best bet.

Here's a clip I shot last weekend plugged into the board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5H6wNkmEg

I recorded two channels from the board and two with the on board mic. This clip is just from the board. The on camera mic paled in comparison as far as audio quality goes. I also tried a shotgun mic and still not as good as the audio from the board.

Be there for the soundcheck if you can to get your levels set.
 
Instead of running the cable to your camera (That can cause several unforseen problems), spend a couple hundred dollars, and buy a multi track recorder used. You can then run the house board into separate channels, giving the instruments and vocals their own channels, and mix it down to where you want it. I paid maybe $300 for a 12 ch Roland, with enough hard drive to record a couple of shows.
 
Steve House said:
I'm not partial to recording with a shotgun, it's just too narrow a pickup pattern for a spread-out source such as a band. A 'gun from the back of the back of the house would pickup far too much of the crowd, plus the time delay versus the picture can lead to sync problems.

Not too happy with doing a board feed either. Not all of the band is necessarily miced so a PA feed can be missing instruments. The board op is going to be setting up for what sounds good to the audience - equalization and setting levels and such - and that's rarely right for recording.
Click to expand...

I was just set to post a question exactly along these lines, but with regard to a wedding reception. This first one I did a couple of weeks ago had an emcee/lead vocalist/DJ with a live band. Roving shotgun mics won't do it (and it's a reception; no camera can just stay in one place), and a board feed won't get all of it.

I need some sort of fixed microphone(s?) somewhere (a shotgun on a light stand to a field recorder?) to give me a stable soundtrack. What to do?

(I don't *think* this is a thread jack. Similar situations.)

Thanks,

Clint
 
Clint, I know of a guy that uses an iRiver and Binaural mics to pick up really good sound in the field. He puts the recorder in his pocket, and the mics on his hat, one over each ear. Maybe you could go that route? It gives a really cool 3D spatial effect.
 
If there's a board, plug in to the board, if you want the true 'live' sound while still being clean, an H2 (or a higher end model recorder with a directional mic array on it, just giving you the cheaper solution I know will work, have used H2s and H4s myself for this, not to mention rigged up mic arrays into audio recorders) close to the stage on a 2 part mic stand that you can 'point' over the stage with the 120 degree coverage array pointed at the music source. Keep the gain low and to record the full range and not clip and you can just boost the dB in post (don't take that to an extreme if you don't want to lose detail on the other end). If you go with the external mic, try to additionally plug into the board and record it on the other two channels on the recorder via line-in. Personally, I've always done both. It's both insurance and additional options during post if they both come out clean.

Make sure you have good wind screens on your mics if its outdoors.

Whatever you do though, record a seperate track onto your camera via a mounted shotgun (Rode Videomic or whatever) for reference during post and to possible get a deeper multi-layer mix of the crowd when needed. You don't want to tether yourself to the audio board via a connection between it and your camera during a concert, even if you use wireless transmitters.
 
Last edited:
Capt Quirk said:
Clint, I know of a guy that uses an iRiver and Binaural mics to pick up really good sound in the field. He puts the recorder in his pocket, and the mics on his hat, one over each ear. Maybe you could go that route? It gives a really cool 3D spatial effect.
Click to expand...

I'll give him points for inventiveness. Does he have a place for beer cans next to the mics?

Since I'd have to be moving around the whole time, I'd be concerned that the sound would still be subject to the same roving randomness as simply having the shotgun on the camera.

I'm not so concerned about capturing the "live" sound; I just want a stable, solid track of everything coming from the stage, whether it's the DJ/emcee, band, or the best man giving a toast over a hand-held mic.

I like the look of that Zoom H4, though it's hard to believe it's robust enough to handle the job. I see XLR; does that mean I could do what I'd imagined, hooking it to a shotgun on a stand?

(Speaking of, what stand? Would a standard mic stand work for a shotgun mic?)
 
A microphone stand works fine with a shotgun mic, if you use a decent shock mount.

And yes, the Zoom H4 can be strapped to the stand and the XLR mic connected to it. Better to use the H4n for that, I'm told. If the H4 is what you have, then try it. I've used it that way, but had to boost the volume in post. Still turned out pretty great for my purposes.

A separate preamp would keep you from having to boost the level in post, if you can afford one.

My H4 has served me pretty well. Wouldn't mind having an H2 to go with it. The H2 wouldn't be as good for use with your shotgun, since it doesn't have XLR's. But it's great for recording ambience in surround sound, using its 4 internal mics. And it's pretty cheap -- about $170 at B&H last time I looked.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
A microphone stand works fine with a shotgun mic, if you use a decent shock mount.

And yes, the Zoom H4 can be strapped to the stand and the XLR mic connected to it. Better to use the H4n for that, I'm told. If the H4 is what you have, then try it. I've used it that way, but had to boost the volume in post. Still turned out pretty great for my purposes.

A separate preamp would keep you from having to boost the level in post, if you can afford one.

My H4 has served me pretty well. Wouldn't mind having an H2 to go with it. The H2 wouldn't be as good for use with your shotgun, since it doesn't have XLR's. But it's great for recording ambience in surround sound, using its 4 internal mics. And it's pretty cheap -- about $170 at B&H last time I looked.
Click to expand...

I like the look of that H4n. Think I'll do that.

Now--what's a good shotgun mic to go on that mic stand and connect to the H4n? It'll be for my backbone soundtrack, catching everything coming from the stage (even if I *can* plug into a board). Seems like something with more front sensitivity and less side would be good.
 
david335 said:
That pretty much defines what a shotgun microphone is. For shotgun info look at:
http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=120866
&
http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=27879
And for buying suggustions:
http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=51526

You are going to need a stand, mic, shockmount, and probably some wind protection incase of an outdoor ceremony.
Click to expand...

Great threads. Refreshing my memory on the patterns again, I was thinking more cardioid than super- or hyper-. If I'm in a hotel ballroom like I was the other night, I want to cut out as much back and side as I can to get the primary audio from the front.

That said, this AT897 has great reviews on B&H and very affordable, but I don't see a description of it in those terms. Does it fall into the cardioid class?
 
well i personally think you should buy the 12 channel recorder like capt quirk said, ive filmed a band straight out of the board before but using the headphone jack and went to a laptop. if came out pretty decent the vocals were a little high on some of the songs, and i also mixed it with my camera audio to get the audience in a little bit to give it that LIVE feeling but def invest in the 12 track recorder. heres my video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CPcXoaX8KI&feature=channel_page

and leave a youtube comment with feed back to let me know what you thought, i doubt ill check this thread again
 
How about wireless?

Hook the transceiver at the board and the receiver to your camera. There's a chance of interference, but as long it's a short distance and you find an open channel you should be good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top