beginner questions

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shay_te

Member
hey all, i am new in the forum and in film making, i am planing on making a short film
i am reading allot of materials and following some channels but still have some things i am not sure about
hope u can help me here.
(i am a stills photographer for some time now .and always wanted to make a short film )

i will try to arrange my questions .
1) what is the min , max focal length that u will use for a film (i guess no one will make a film with 14mm or a fish-eye lens )?
2) and what are the most common focal length ?
3) will u prefer a prime lens or a zoom lens , and what is the common use of that ?
4) do people usually using "pull focus" on a Steadicam or a dolly ?

thank you all
 
welcome to the forum,

other than using a specialty lens for some reason, there are a few established framing shots.
from ultra wide or long shots, to extreme closeup, closeup, shoulder up, medium close up, medium, medium wide, wide, full body, ultra wide or panoramic shots

on a S35mm or dx sensor, a usual lens package of 6 or 7 lens might include 21,24,28,35,50,85 with either 18 or 100/135

medium close up, or medium shot. two up, two people having a conversation, usually sitting and more often than not, it's an over the shoulder shot.

prime lens

pull focus as in just focusing while on a dolly or steadicam, yes. if your referring to changing the focus from foreground character to background characters, these shots are usually static over the shoulder shots.
 
shay_te said:
hey all, i am new in the forum and in film making, i am planing on making a short film
i am reading allot of materials and following some channels but still have some things i am not sure about
hope u can help me here.
(i am a stills photographer for some time now .and always wanted to make a short film )

i will try to arrange my questions .
1) what is the min , max focal length that u will use for a film (i guess no one will make a film with 14mm or a fish-eye lens )?
2) and what are the most common focal length ?
3) will u prefer a prime lens or a zoom lens , and what is the common use of that ?
4) do people usually using "pull focus" on a Steadicam or a dolly ?

thank you all
Click to expand...

The various focal lengths of lenses is dependent on the sensor size. For my GH-1 a 25mm (or there abouts) gives the 'normal' angle of view. For an APC sensors sized camera it may be about 35mm. I don't have one but that seems to be the number I recall.

DSLR zooms have 'problems' but of course are cheap. To 'fix' the problems one needs to spend quite a bit of money, so most people live with the problems.

One can buy adapters for many of the DSLR cameras used in filmmaking to allow cross brand lens usage. For my GH-1 I have a Nikon adapter and can use my Nikon lenses with it.

Prime lenses of course often have better optics for a given price... but one must evaluate that because some vendors lie... I mean state the most optimistic spec...

For pro work a focus puller is almost always used on Steadycam as well as most other shots where there is significant movement of the camera or talent.

The 14-140 'kit' lens I have for the GH-1 has been pretty good for my needs. I have used my Nikon lenses but because of having to work in 'manual' mode these have not been as useful shooting 'on the fly' activities. They really are for narrative filmmaking where some amount of time is expected for setting up the shot and shooting the scene.
 
sorry i am still or more confused now , lets say i want a long/full shot , i can achieve that with a 10mm 18mm and 30mm and 200mm from very far away ,
my question is what will be the minimum AND maximum focal length film makers the usually AVOID ?
cause for example 10mm will have a very strong barrel distortion.

thank you
 
shay my quick tip and advice if you are going to make a film and not sure which lens to use, is to start with [size=+1]50mm[/size] as your base and move yourself further away or closer to get your framing how you like it. If you have more space available for the shot then go even longer, for example 85mm or 105mm. I will explain reasons for this below, and obviously if you are pressed for being in a small space 50mm will probably not work and you can go to 35mm, or 24mm, etc... but I don't recommend shooting subjects in lower than 50mm or 35mm for intimate framing. (Go in a hallway and shoot through a door frame if you need to, or go outside and shoot back inside if you can, etc.. but avoid wide angle for shooting people)

A few reasons to shoot 50mm or higher:

Perspective: I suggest using 50mm as a starting point is because it is equivalent to the perspective of the human eye. It is how we see objects perspectives in real life. So for example if you were to go 24mm and do a close up on persons face they will be slightly skewed and distorted. Door frames will look bowed, lines will bend. This is amateur.

Compression: Wide lenses give you a wider perspective of the background whereas a longer focal lengths will compress the background more and this is an excellent way to frame out unwanted objects from your scene and get more intimate with your character(s).

Depth: Aside from longer lenses you depth of your scene(s) will allow you to create separation between foreground, middle and background elements. Longer lenses will create nice blurred foregrounds and backgrounds much easier when you are shooting f2.8 to f8 on your lens. Never shoot wide open on a lens to achieve "depth".

Cinematography: Some directors will like the camera locked off for certain shots, but there will be a time where you will need to float around the camera as your actors shift within the frame side to side or up/down. For very nice medium and close up shots like this where you need to float around I suggest using anything from 85mm to even 200mm or higher. You will get excellent bokeh without thinking you need to shoot very low f-stop, and absolutely NOTHING is more AMATEUR to me in a film when a wide angle lens is used for a close-up shot and floating around because you can see the perspective of nearby objects or backgrounds shift right before your eyes which is not very cinematography-like at all.

Hope this has been helpful.
 
i know a bit what is the effect of a focal length on am image
as i said i am a stills photographer , here is my page http://www.facebook.com/shayphoto
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just wanted to know the common focal length used i film making ?
and what focal length should i avoid ?

lets say will u do a "full shot", will film makers use a 18mm or avoid this kind of focal length cause it barrel distortion ?
what is common ,what is the language for each shot ....or is there are specific rules i should follow ?

cause if u will ask me this question about stills photography i will answer there are no rules cause art has no rules ,
but just to take in mind that a wide focal length lens will not compliment to a person face ,most of the time.

i dont believe i will use 50mm to the all length of the film , cause i guess some times i will want a some other look and feel that changing focal length can help me to achive .


so the correct question will be to ask what is the used focal length for each shot ?
 
there is no "common" focal length, and like you say there are really no "rules". But most of the rules that do apply to photography apply to directing photography for films as well. For example a "good" portrait lens for photography is 85mm and a "good" f-stop is f16 - do you know why that is when really you could just throw on a 35mm and take the same picture?

If you are the director of photography its up to you to determine what lenses to use for each shot and why you would use them. Sometimes these decisions are made with some discussion with the director as well. Mood, location, etc.. all that plays a factor.

My suggestion of starting off with 50mm and going from there is ONLY a rule of thumb for example say if you knew nothing at all about filmmaking and didn't know what lens to use. If you want a full shot a 50mm lens is probably not going to be wide enough so try 35mm, then 28mm, etc... but I am advising that you try to avoid wide angles in certain situations.

For my shoots I am commonly using 28mm for wide establishing shots, then 50mm to 85mm for medium and close up shots. If I'm outdoor I use longer focal lengths to compress the background - but that is my opinion and preference - you are free to use whatever focal lengths you want.

It's "art" as you say.
 
shay_te said:
sorry i am still or more confused now , lets say i want a long/full shot , i can achieve that with a 10mm 18mm and 30mm and 200mm from very far away ,
my question is what will be the minimum AND maximum focal length film makers the usually AVOID ?
cause for example 10mm will have a very strong barrel distortion.

thank you
Click to expand...

Again it is dependent on the sensor size as to what 'field of view' or 'angle of view' the lens has. You need to give a specific camera, in my case I'm pretty familiar with the Panasonic Lumix GH-1(and by extension the GH-2 and GH-3). Other shooters here use a Canon, and among the Canon line there's the T2i, T3i, 5D, and 7D. I'm not familiar with the Canon line so I can't give you what a 'normal' lens would be, I believe for some of them it may be around 35mm.

The GH-1 has a smaller sensor so the 'normal' lens is around 25mm. I use a 14mm up to the 140mm setting on my 14-140mm zoom. I use the 17mm setting on my Nikon 17-35mm zoom. I use the 24mm Nikon lens, and I use the 200mm Nikon lens.

How I 'figure this out', is I start with something like, I want a shot of a man, 6 feet tall, at 20 feet, filling the frame with a small amount of head and foot room.

I then calculate, actually I have two iPhone apps that make this a cinch, and figure out for my GH-1 what lens is required given those 'shot parameters'.

Another example is I want to shoot surfers who are 300 feet from the beach, what lens do I need to get a crouched surfer on a board that fills 50-75% of the frame. It's about 250mm-300mm on my GH-1 (I did calculate it out once...). So, since I don't have a 250/300mm lens I have to weigh the 'price' of a digital blow up and loss of resolution thereby and if the resulting quality is acceptable.

But all this is in reference to the sensor size I have in my camera.

For most still photographers who have shot standard sized 35mm Film film cameras, they just were 'told' use a 50mm for normal, and a 200mm for telephoto and perhaps 100mm for 'portraits'. They were not told about how to convert between cameras to make the Field of Views match up, or the like.

Same is true for shooting 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9cm medium format... the same is true for shooting 4x5 or 8x10... one was just 'told' to use 150mm for 4x6 and 300 for 8x10... Personally I used a 200 on 4x5 but that was a choice...

With the advent of the digital age, and the fact that until recently 'large' sensors have been too expensive for most, there arose a need to 'relate' focal length to 35mm Film film negative sizes, so one would have a multiplier factor to relate one's digital camera sensor size to the 35mm Film film standard. So one would hear that for my GH-1, a 25mm lens was equivalent to a 50mm lens, or a 2x factor. Other DSLRS had different factors.

I personally think this does not lead to understanding, so I began to work these things out in terms of Field of View or Angle of View, so that I could answer such quesitons as what you posed... how long a lens do I need to capture a man 6 feet tall with head and foot room.

I actually think most 35mm still photographers don't really answer that question but slap a zoom lens on and adjust the zoom setting so that the framing is what they want.

So to answer your question... yes I shoot with a 14mm zoom lens setting on some occasions. I also shoot with a 140mm setting as well. For my sensor in my GH-1 a 14mm does have the same angle of view as a 14mm would have on a 35mm Film film frame. The 14mm setting also does not seem to have much rectilinear distortion, so does not look 'fisheye-ish'.
 
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