Bebob Box-FS Review

bbalser

bbalser

Veteran
Ok, I'll take it upon myself to tell you all about my experience with the Bebob Box-FS. First of all, before you order one, get your hands on it and mount it up fully FIRST. There are some gotchas that may not matter to some, but really were deal killers for me.

It's made for the FS-100 so you can mount it under the HVX-200, much like the JimmyBox does. It's solid, seems very sturdy, has two holes on each side at the front, and two at the front top, I guess to attach other stuff to it.

The FS-100 does not mount, it sets lose with no physical attachments, in a drawer that slides out towards the back so you can access the LCD display when you have to. It has a button that locks it in place when the FS-100 is inside, and to lock it in position when the FS-100 has been slid out for viewing, it's not all the way out, only enough to see the FS-100 display. Which is a good thing, as the FS-100 is in now way physically attached to the drawer.

Ok, that brings us to my major problem with this unit. The FS-100 does not get attached to the drawer in any manner. It sits in a hole only big enough for the battery to fit through, and when you slide the drawer closed, it presses against the FS-100's box very hard to keep it in place. You have to slide the drawer out all the way, past the locking position used to view the LCD display. And thats where the FS-100 can pop out and fall VERY easily. Bebob decided, for some unknown reason, to make it without some sort of physical attachment so you didn't risk your FS-100 falling out onto the floor, which mine did. With the FS-100 in it, the drawer is somewhat hard to open and close, due to the great amount of pressure exerted on it by the Bebob Box-FS. This worries me, as I don't want my FS-100 case to crack.

The first time I opened the drawer, with it on a tripod, with my HVX-200, and opened it all the way, the FS-100 actually did pop out and hit the floor. I'm testing my FS-100 tonight to make sure it still works! Fortunately we were on dirt, packed dirt, but not cement, so I'll find out how sturdy the FS-100 is for real! The sudden release of the pressure on the top of the FS-100 by the Bebob Box-FS caused the FS-100 to pop up just enough to fall. So you have to be very careful when removing your FS-100 from this thing.

My second deal killer is that the Box-FS is a MAJOR pain to rig up with camera and tripod. And you HAVE to attach the camera FIRST. You can't attach it to a tripod first, it just won't allow for that. Not to mention the added weight and bulk, thus, it's NOT realistic to use in a hand-held manner.

It doesn't come with the screw to attach your camera. I had to run to the hardware store to buy my own. So you can't install your camera on it with a quarter or regular screw driver. I had to use a special very thin and very long screw driver, which I picked up at the hardware store, also. You have to get it all the way through the entire contraption to get the screw into the camera.

It'd be much better if they had put a permanent screw in it, like my quick release plates and other mounting equipment has. The screw turns, but won't come out. Not so with the Bebob Box-FS, as I had to do, you have to buy your own. You know how hard it is to find this screw with this threading at this short length from a hardware store?

Once mounted, don't expect to get to easily get to your User preset buttons or anything along the bottom left side of the HVX-200, they're sort of down against the Box-FS, back away from the edge, down against the box, and not easy to get to.

So, step one, mount your camera. Step two, attaching it to your tripod. With the camera mounted it is very awkward. If you don't use a quick release plate (and with this extra bulk and weight, I don't trust a quick release plate between the Box-FS and the tripod head), you'll spend all day trying to get this monster assembled properly. Thus, I'd consider it a semi-permanent mounting device for your tripod.

IMHO, it's just not a well thought out design. A fantastic idea, just not much thought put into the actual build.

I'd avoid this mount if you change tripods often or go hand held. Again, it's a fantastic idea, but Bebob really dropped the ball on the actual design. As if someone with no actual shooting experience designed it. Aside from the drawer, it's just too awkward to deal with when you set up and tear down and change camera rigging as much as I often do. I am sending mine back and going with the JimmyBox, which I find easier to deal with. I'll miss the drawer, but I won't miss having to put quick release plates on every piece of equipment I have, just to make the Bebob Box-FS usable in the real world. And I won't miss the danger of my FS-100 hitting the ground again when I open the drawer all the way.

And I had such hopes for this device. I got it based on a friend's recommendation. I called that friend today, and he said he may send his back for the same reason.

FYI...
 
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Dear Mister Basler,

I´ve got your direct e-mail this morning and found at the same time your thread in dvxuser.

I´m very sorry and concerned about the difficulties you have with our BOX-FS. Let´s go through your comments:

1) High pressure on the firestore

I understand your concerns, because the Firestore isn´t supposed to be pressed into the hole.

Due to your comments, we went through our manufacturing records, and found indeed parts (manufactured in August 2006) that are far away out of tolerances. The parts involved are the two slim black plastic parts screwed at the top of the Box on the left and right side. These parts are supposed to hold the firestore down in his hole but not to press it down.

We will organise immediately a call back action on the units involved and replace them through correct ones.

I apologize that these units went through our quality control and for the disagreement caused to you and eventually to other users.

2) No Physical attachment:

As you correctly mentioned, the drawer has three positions, locked by a button: one under the camera, one to be able to read the LCD screen of the FS, one to remove the FS. As long as you don´t intend to remove the FS, there is no reason to pull the drawer all the way out. So far, as long as you don´t want to remove the firestore, it is physically attached to the box, between the two slim plastic upper parts and the drawer. You can put your camera upside down, and the FS won´t move. It is even an automatic locking attachment, because as soon as you did put your FS in the Drawer and pulled the drawer into the BOX a couple of centimeter, you will have to press the unlock button to be able to remove your FS from the BOX.

Nevertheless, I must admit that this system only works nicely as long as the drawer is easy to push and pull. On the units involved in our call back, it is not the case because of the pressure puted onto the FS. We will integrate your comments in the next batch of BOX, putting to locking buttons: One to pull out the drawer so that you can see the LCD Screen, an extra one to pull it farther and allow you to take out the FS.

3) Pain to rig up with camera and tripod.

"You HAVE to attach the camera first": Yes, it is right. It seemed to us that it makes sense to make out of the camera and the BOX one unit that youn then can fix on what ever you want: tripod, boom, steadicam,... Attaching it to the tripod first would mean that you let the BOX on the tripod and take away the camera. Where is the FS then supposed to be? Staying onto the tripod? Attached to your belt?

"It´s NOT realistic to use in hand held manner": If you shoot hand held and want to record on FS, what choices do you have? Put the FS on the top of the camera? Put the FS on your belt, risking the cable to plug off? Put the FS under the camera like it is with the BOX? No solution makes neither the FS nore the HVX200 smaller nore lighter.

4) Screw to mount the box onto the camera

Every single Box is delivered with a permanent screw. This screw is fixed to the upper plate of the Box in the same way as all Tripod manufacturers do on their quicklock plates. If you want to remove it, you must literally unscrew it. We need this screw puted in during the manufacturing to fix the unit on a tool. Why did your unit not have a screw mounted on will stay a mystery because I´m pretty sure it had one on as it did left the factory

Screwdriver: It is true that you cannot use a quarter to fix your camera on the BOX. We didn´t see this as an issue because we thaught that the camera would stay most of the time screwed together with the BOX. The Screwdriver needed has to be minimum 60mm (less than 2,5 inches) long and maximum 7mm (0,3 inch) wide. Is it "special very thin and very long"? We thaught not.

5) User buttons

Sorry sir, I cannot follow your description. my fingers aren´t especially big, but where is the problem to get to the user´s buttons? (see attached pictures)

6) Fixing the BOX/Camera Unit on the tripod.

There again, I cannot follow. The way to fix the box onto the tripod is the same as fixing the camera directly onto the tripod. Quick release plates (as made by Sachtler, Vinten, Cartoni,...) are able to carry 30 Kg cameras, why shouldn´t you trust it for the BOX plus the HVX200

That it takes 1 day to tight two screws (one between camera and BOX and one between BOX and tripod) is hard to believe.

What is the issue if you have to change tripods often? Screw the quicklock plate away (and every tripod has his own quickplate) and screw the quiklock plate of the other tripod on. Take neither longer or shorter as if you would do it why the camera only.

I don´t know the Jimmybox as good as I know the BOX but from the pictures of it published in the net, I don´t understand why most of the problems you mention should be different. is it more dedicated to handheld? can you access better your user buttons? can you fix it in an other way as with the 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch screws on your tripod? Can you balance your tripod better? Is it less a monster? The concept, as long as I could see is quite similar: put the FS under the camera!

To conclude, we put a very high attention to quality and I apologize again that products have been delivered that doesn´t meet the specification. regarding the other points , I would have preferred you waiting for our answer onto your direct e-mail before making your comments public. We perhpas could have cleared some of issues in front.

regards,

Pierre
 

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Yes, the pics do look nice, which is why I bought it, but in real life, it's not all that. It is HUGE and HEAVEY.

I shoot hand held with the belt clip on my hip, or on the hand strap of the camera, and have never had problems with the FW cable coming lose.
I did NOT get any camera mount screw on my unit.
I'm 6'1" with big hands. The buttons were difficult to get to.
Hand held, well, when I did it, it felt like the HVX had doubled in size, not to mention the extra weight it added. It is VERY bulky to use hand held, period.
The drawer on my was VERY hard to open and close, period.

I was very unhappy with the unit. EVS has agreed to take it back.

I understand your defense, but I'm just being totally honest about my experience on our first shoot with it. There is also no mention of how to get support on your site. Nor is there any literature in the box with the unit at all telling how to get support, explaining the warranty, or anything.
Nope, not happy with it at all.

Again, it's a wonderful concept, I just think you guys skimmped too much in the implimentation. I have other ways to deal with the FS-100 that are more elegant and less bulky, and don't add so much weight to the camera. There are several things I'd very quickly change if the design were up to me, that would make this a must have for FS-100 users. But, as is, I just don't see it. Maybe someone will get use out of it in their own shooting situations, but I'm doing a documentary that demands fast set up, break down, without any time to worry about bulk, weight, and braking my FS-100, which fell on the ground. Thankfully, the FS-100 was turned off at the time and still works fine. That's a testemant to the durability of the FS-100, after it popped out of your device. If it did work, would you replace it for me? I doubt it.

Thank you for your response. I hope your company revamps the unit to make it a more realistic film tool.
 
To make it clear, the weight is exactly 500 g. The size is as shown on the pictures

I´m not really trying to defend our product or concept, I´m trying to understand your points to eventualy improve our products. Perhaps is our concept to always let the firestore under the camera the wrong one.

I would be very thankfull if you could let me know, here, or in direct mails the ideas you would have to improve the product.
 
I've said what I have to say, the one I bought is on it's way back to EVS.

But to clarify, make something to physically attach the FS-100, not just lay there loose. Pressure on a hard drive unit is not such a great idea. I'm a retired IT Engineer, and I'd never endorse anything that uses Shear Pressure to hold a hard drive unit in anything.

Include a mounting screw for the camera.

Make it a tad smaller. It's WAY too big for what it does. Very bulky, and in my experience, very awkward using handheld. Or just admit it's for tripod use and not for handheld use. I found it way to massive for handheld use, period. There's a LOT of extra space all over it that is not needed.

Someone like me, with big hands, well, the user buttons are hard to get to. If I had tiny little girl fingers, it'd be fine. Don't know what to do about that, but that's my experience with it.

Include a warranty card, or some sort of documentation. When I opened my box, I thought I had a bootleg or some repacked unit that had been sent back. What IS the warranty on it? That's not stated anywhere! No "thanks for buying our product, here's how it works", nothing was in the box, but the unit, with NO mounting screw for the camera. Oh, the bubble wrap that covered only have of the unit was fun to pop.

There you go.

BTW, had my FS-100 had been damaged and not worked after it popped out of the Box-FS, would you guys have replaced it for me? Point is, I can't find any warranty information on this product, that we are trusting to protect a very valuable, expensive piece of hardware. Point is, since there's NO warranty information on your web site, nor any literature that comes with the Box-FS, you're not legally responsible for anything that goes wrong. Not the sign of a quality product, in my very humble opinion.
 
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Many thanks for your suggestions. We will do our best to improve our products and integrate your comments in our future developments.
 
Is that in writing somewhere? Aside from your speicific post here, I can't find that info anywhere. And what are the terms and conditions of that warranty?
 
Just looking at the pictures show you that shooting handheld is not a comfortable job to do with the box attached, I can see that without buying it.

Hence, even without the box, shooting handheld with the HVX is tough.
 
They sent me a PM saying they have a one year warranty on this thing. I asked if I could get a copy. I haven't heard from them since. It's not on the web site, nothing in the box. Seems odd they have no warranty in writing to show for their products. Stupid me...
 
I just find it super scary that someone like Bebob will not publish or put their product warranty into print. That's a red flag to me. I've asked more than once, and all they will do is email me that there's a one year warranty, but not the terms of that warranty.

Buyer beware...
 
I think Bebob puts a lot more into their platform-specific products than most.

For me, I absolutely won't use their boxes under my camera as a matter of preference. I do a lot of handheld, and anything under my camera, save for an iris rod bracket and quick release plate, just gets in the way of my work.

There are plenty of shooters (and sound operators) who swear by Bebob's boxes, citing their rugged construction and thoughtful design characteristics.

Like anyone who manufactures for a niche user, Bebob is unlikley to hit it out of the park every time. To have a product executive or development engineer jump into this thread on post number 2 is remarkable.

Let's keep it constructive and I know they'll do right by you.

e
 
I also find it quite curious that bebob does not have a written warranty for their products, particularly since in the absence of a disclaimer broader implied warranties would apply under US law. Whether this is the intent is an open question, since almost all US companies have specific "limited warranties" that supercede the implied warranties. I checked 16x9's website (they are bebob's US distributor) and found no warranty information there either. I am considering a Foxi for my HVX, and will need warranty info in order to make my decision. I have emailed 16x9 asking where I can find this information and will report back on when I hear from them.
 
Pfff, it's just a metal piece, are you afraid it is going to explode? Perhaps this is a very European way of thinking but you can't claim everything. Bebob brings out pretty nice things for the HVX and DVX, its a good company with good products.

They even reacted on this place. Its so bureaucratic to react this way, all the products made by Bebob have a warranty time. If you have a problem with this metal Bebob box construction, email them!
 
But there is also no warranty information concerning the Foxi, as I mentioned above. And that is much more that a metal box. You can be dismissive about this if you like, but I don't think anyone in their right mind should buy a piece of electronic equipment without knowing what the terms of the warranty are.
 
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