Basic questions about recording with two mics

M

Mark-P

Well-known member
I will be using a Sony A7S2 and a borrowed Sony XLR-K1M

I have very little audio experience, no budget, and very little time to setup prior to my shoot.

1. If using the boom that comes with the device for recording video of someone speaking in a quiet room, generally, what is the maximum distance I would want to be to obtain decent/good audio?

2. When checking the levels on the LCD, and adjusting the Levels/Gain control dial, where do I want my levels to be reading on screen for someone just speaking? Is an average value of around -12 good as long as it not going into the orange/red?

3. I’m thinking of running a second channel with an XLR connected to a Beyerdynamic M58 that will be located closer to the person speaking so I have two audio options. I’m not sure where I will position the handheld mic since it needs to be outside of the shot, and I’m not sure if I will be able to use a mic stand, C Stand, etc. Generally, how far can a mic like this be from a person speaking while still obtaining good quality audio? If the person is seated can it be on the floor?

4.) If I do record with both mics, does this just mean that when I import the video I will have two audio tracks, one from each mic, so I can just select the better of the two and delete the one I do not want?

Thanks!
 
1. If using the boom that comes with the device for recording video of someone speaking in a quiet room, generally, what is the maximum distance I would want to be to obtain decent/good audio?
As close as possible, also depends on the amount of noise in the room. The closer the better

2. When checking the levels on the LCD, and adjusting the Levels/Gain control dial, where do I want my levels to be reading on screen for someone just speaking? Is an average value of around -12 good as long as it not going into the orange/red?
Yes

3. I’m thinking of running a second channel with an XLR connected to a Beyerdynamic M58 that will be located closer to the person speaking so I have two audio options. I’m not sure where I will position the handheld mic since it needs to be outside of the shot, and I’m not sure if I will be able to use a mic stand, C Stand, etc. Generally, how far can a mic like this be from a person speaking while still obtaining good quality audio? If the person is seated can it be on the floor?
Again as close as possible. But I had good results with a microphone mounted on the camera.

4.) If I do record with both mics, does this just mean that when I import the video I will have two audio tracks, one from each mic, so I can just select the better of the two and delete the one I do not want?
Yes, or you can mix the tracks.
Thanks![/QUOTE]

The best way to find out is to test the setup before the interview starts. Let someone else talk, view your level meters and use a good set of headphones.
You might try a lavalier microphone too.
 
As a general rule your talent should be able to reach out and touch the mic. That is about your outer limit, closer is generally better as in 12 -18 inches.

Because the mics are at different distances you may not be able to mix them with out it sounding strange. Generally you would pick on or the other.
 
<<4.) If I do record with both mics, does this just mean that when I import the video I will have two audio tracks, one from each mic, so I can just select the better of the two and delete the one I do not want?>>

Just make sure if you want separate audio from the two mics that you plug one into each of the XLR inputs. Then on the XLR-K1M unit, make sure the switch for "REC CH SELECT" is set to "CH1". That is the way to make sure that each input goes to its own channel. The "CH1-CH2" means that that whatever is plugged into CH1 goes to both channels. When you import into your editing application, what was on CH1 will be the LEFT audio track and what was into CH2 will be the RIGHT audio track. Note that if you want independent control in the editing app that many apps require that you set the options so that the software imports two separate mono tracks instead of one stereo audio track. Even if you end up with a stereo track, most software will have some option for you to separate it so you can have independent control over each track. Have fun!
 
1.) Please pardon my ignorance, though what is the advantage of mixing the two different tracks of someone speaking together?

2.) I noticed that this camera wit this adapter does not seem to display the levels while testing the mic until I hit the record button. Anyone know if there is a way to see the levels prior to recording?

3.) For the second mic, if given the choice between a omni directional vs. a directional condenser, generally, what is the better choice?

Thanks everyone for the help!
 
1. Nothing - it is a detriment. Use one track or the other. Mixing them together can cause unwanted phase cancelation.

3. More than likely, the directional condenser will be the better choice.
 
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1. Mostly what Paul said but depending on the difference in distance mixing can add a bit of room to a lav track and make it sound more "natural". The general reason not to mix is that, again depending on the distance difference, there will be cancelations and you can get a strange filtered sound that changes as the actor moves around. So a lav and a boom is more often mixable than two fixed/ boomed mics.
 
The M 58 is a fine hand held interview omni - it's terrible at a distance. Thin and feeble sounding, and of course hears everything in the room. It's perfect for sticking under an interviewee's face, and the long handle makes this even easier. It's just a poor tool for OOV mic placement.
 
paulears said:
The M 58 is a fine hand held interview omni - it's terrible at a distance. Thin and feeble sounding, and of course hears everything in the room. It's perfect for sticking under an interviewee's face, and the long handle makes this even easier. It's just a poor tool for OOV mic placement.
Click to expand...

You will also need a lot of gain so as Paul says unless it is very close it will be noisy and not much use.
 
Everyone should know these two minimum facts about sound:

1) get closer!

2) kill competing noise sources!


So yeah because of point #1, you want to get whatever mic you use as close as you possible can. Ride that frame line!
 
Thanks for all of the responses. Couple more, if possible:

1. What is the advantage of recording into a Zoom recorder rather than going directly into the Sony XLR-K1M?
2. When looking at XLR adapters such as this Sony model, what do you look for to determine potential quality? What might be the difference between this unit and one that is $500-$1,000 more?

Thanks!
 
1. Which Zoom? The question implies that you are a one person crew that sets the levels during a test and then largely forgets about audio once recording. If you are a one person crew, then perhaps a Zoom is more bulk than it is worth. It also depends on the type of work you are doing. If you are on the run, then the Zoom doesn't make sense. If you are doing narrative, then I could not work without an external mixer/recorder. It's a matter of what is most important to you for the type of work you are doing. We can't really answer that question for you without knowing what type of work you want to do.
 
The age old problem of connecting pro mics, doing pro things into a camera that has audio as bottom of the feature list. The Beachtek adaptors have been around for years doing the same kind of job - providing phantom power for condenser mics and allowing two or more inputs to be combined and mixed - they also give you the facility to plug in headphones so you can hear what the camera hears. Downsides are that on some cameras, only automatic level control is available - which means the levels go up and down, but bring up and down the noise and unwanted sound too. That Sony one would probably be fine if it allows the audio levels to be properly manual. Cost wise, good pre-amps, for noise free recording of quiet sounds is not in cheap products - DSLR onboard audio is often pretty nasty, so these adaptors that do the low level preamp function instead of the camera can only be a good move forward. Trouble is that as they get more and more expensive, the differences start to get more difficult to quantify. So a £100 device compared to a £50 device is normally a good jump you can hear. Go ups to £200 and the difference is smaller, and above that difficult. The Zooms for around £100 are damn good things really, and the more expensive ones excellent - as are others in similar style, and the benefit of a separate device with built in mics is clear to see (and hear). Downside? You have to sync, but frankly that's really not a problem. So many people make it one, and people sell sync software people buy - but I've never had any need to use clever software and I don;pt even use the auto feature my editor has that can do it.

I use a separate zoom recorder with one camera, simply because that camera has a strangely noisy input. The other camera has a decent sounding audio section, but I still use the zoom for convenience. However - seeing audio levels in the camera viewfinder does help no end. I guess the only real advice is to try these different workflows and go with the one you hate least.
 
Mark-P said:
I will be using a Sony A7S2 and a borrowed Sony XLR-K1M

I have very little audio experience, no budget, and very little time to setup prior to my shoot.

1. If using the boom that comes with the device for recording video of someone speaking in a quiet room, generally, what is the maximum distance I would want to be to obtain decent/good audio?
Click to expand...


The maximum distance you want to be from the subject is also the minimum distance you can be from the subject!

As the closer you can be, the better. (within reason, a few exceptions etc blah blah blah)
 
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