Basic question RE: Recording audio through a mixer

btownproductions

btownproductions

Well-known member
Hi, I'm pretty new to recording audio on my own (go figure, considering I worked in a foley studio for a year or so haha). But this is the first time I've tried recording audio through a mixer. I'm using a Rode NTG-2, the mixer is a Yamaha MW8CX, and right now I'm recording it with Sony Vegas, but once I get my eLicense working again, I'll be using Cubase 4.

My main problem is... mixer settings (yes, I know there's thousands of different ways to record with a mixer). But I just can't seem to get very good levels for some reason.

I don't think I should have to have my gain cranked way up to get a usable level, but to get anything somewhat loud once it gets to my computer, I had my settings as follows: Master Level to about 3/4 of the way up, channel one level almost full, channel one gain about 2/3 to 3/4 (which gave me a lot of background hum), all of this with my master volume in Vegas all the way up AND my computer speakers turned up to full.... I just did a quick test like this with the mic about 18 inches from my face, and talking in a normal "Indoor" voice.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong to get such low volume? I know it's probably just something stupid since I'm new to using a mixer, but I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Thanks,

Patrick
 
btownproductions said:
Hi, I'm pretty new to recording audio on my own (go figure, considering I worked in a foley studio for a year or so haha). But this is the first time I've tried recording audio through a mixer. I'm using a Rode NTG-2, the mixer is a Yamaha MW8CX, and right now I'm recording it with Sony Vegas, but once I get my eLicense working again, I'll be using Cubase 4.

My main problem is... mixer settings (yes, I know there's thousands of different ways to record with a mixer). But I just can't seem to get very good levels for some reason.

I don't think I should have to have my gain cranked way up to get a usable level, but to get anything somewhat loud once it gets to my computer, I had my settings as follows: Master Level to about 3/4 of the way up, channel one level almost full, channel one gain about 2/3 to 3/4 (which gave me a lot of background hum), all of this with my master volume in Vegas all the way up AND my computer speakers turned up to full.... I just did a quick test like this with the mic about 18 inches from my face, and talking in a normal "Indoor" voice.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong to get such low volume? I know it's probably just something stupid since I'm new to using a mixer, but I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Thanks,

Patrick
Click to expand...

The first step is to figure out where the problem is - are you recording at too low a level or is there something wrong on the monitoring and playback side of things. There is no control in Vegas for the recording level, all of your adjustments to the recording levels will take place upstream. You haven't said how you have your speakers connected and if it turns out the problem is on the playback side that will become important.

I haven't used that mixer but looking at the block diagram in the manual it looks like the level sent to the USB port is controlled by the Channel Gain control and the Channel level, the Master Stereo level is shown as being after the signal is tapped off of the bus for the Rec Out and USB ports so its setting should be irrelevant. Plug your mic into a channel input, phantom power on, High Pass Filter on, Compression off (full counter-clockwise), Pan centred, and speak into the mic from a normal distance. Turn up the Channel Gain until the channel's Peak LED just flickers on peaks. Switch your attention to Vegas. Set up to record a track, go into record mode, and watch the track recording meter levels in Vegas. While speaking into the mic, increase the mixer's Channel Level fader until your recording meters are showing the desired level - they should be somewhere in the -6dB range. If your recording meters hover around there when you're speaking the recording is fine and your perceived low levels are caused by some mismatch on the playback side of things.

An alternate way to set your channel levels is to put the Channel Fader at unity, marked by the little triangle at the 3/4 of full up on the dial, and then adjust the Channel Gain until the recording level in Vegas is at the desired level, about -6dBFS

The various gain controls in Vegas will have no effect on the recording level, only playback and monitoring.
 
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Thanks for the help Steve, that helped me out a lot in figuring out how the mixer settings work. But my problem is still there, even with the channel gain and level maxed out, at about 24" from the mic I'm just barely getting into the -6dB range in Vegas.... Should I really have to have it maxed out to get this? Also, I don't have the high pass filter on my mic turned on, just the one on my mixer. Should this be on?

With my channel level and gain at full (full clockwise), and the mixers high pass filter on, the peaking LED doesn't flicker until the mic is about 10-12" from my mouth (while saying "test" at a normal speaking tone)

This could pose a problem on set if I need to have my actors speak unnaturally loud to be able to get a decent level from it...
 
I went over it before, when I first got the mixer (I was originally using it for recording guitars, and it worked fine for that). But I've lost the manual now, since I've had this mixer for a year or 2.

Like I said, I can get decent audio, but that's only when I have the gain and channel level at full. It's still okay if I put the channel level to 3/4, but I don't like the fact that I need to have my levels so high.. I tried with both the mixer's and the mic's high pass filters on/off, but should I be leaving them both on? Would this help get rid of a big of background hum?

I'm beginning to think I may just have to live with it, and just record everything at the maximum levels.. which really sucks...
 
I'm not familiar with that mic or mixer. Maybe some of the more expert audio guys can chime in.
 
Shooting from the hip, it sounds like a phantom power issue. Triple check it, often each channel on the mixer has their own phantom on/off; make sure it's on. Next could be routing inside the mixer. Is the channel going to the correct output bus? After that is the computer A/D device (settings again) receiving input? I had the same problem on my little Presonus Firebox and I had to boost the gain (software setting) before the mic was reaching a decent level. And then finally there's the recording software.... they don't make this easy ;) Follow the signal path until you think you found the culprit.

Good luck!
 
btownproductions said:
I went over it before, when I first got the mixer (I was originally using it for recording guitars, and it worked fine for that). But I've lost the manual now, since I've had this mixer for a year or 2.

Like I said, I can get decent audio, but that's only when I have the gain and channel level at full. It's still okay if I put the channel level to 3/4, but I don't like the fact that I need to have my levels so high.. I tried with both the mixer's and the mic's high pass filters on/off, but should I be leaving them both on? Would this help get rid of a big of background hum?

I'm beginning to think I may just have to live with it, and just record everything at the maximum levels.. which really sucks...
Click to expand...

You can download a replacment manual here: http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/xg/mw8cx_en_om_b0.pdf

Having the Channel Level fader almost all the way up isn't a problem. That triangle at the 3/4 mark is the unity gain position and you generally want active channels to be there as their baseline setting. So that's not too high - that's the design nominal operating level for that control. Mixing usually starts with all channels at unity and is a process of selectively reducing channels that are too high as opposed to boosting channels that are too low. Nominal level is at 3/4 instead of full-up to give you the flexibility to dial in a little boost when a specific channel needs it.

Make sure the knobs for the equalizer section are also at mid-range, pointing at the little triangles. That's the unity position for them, if you turn them down you're cutting the signal.

I'm concerned with the background hum. When/where are you hearing it? Unplug the USB connection. Plug a pair of headphones into the phone jack, set the Stereo Master control at about 3/4 up (triangle mark) and slowly increase the headphone volume. Do you hear the hum there? When you talk into the mic what does the mixer's meter show for level? If you have a noticable amount of hum I'm thinking you may have a faulty mic cable or a faulty mixer. A balanced XLR connection should be dead quiet for hum (you ARE plugging the mic into the XLR connector and not using some sort of adapter, right?)

Does the mic have a fresh battery or have you removed it altogether? Try it both ways but make sure the battery is fresh - I know that you're using phantom but some mics that have an internal power option don't perform properly with a dead battery in them even when connected to phantom. While you're swapping things out, try a different mic cable.
 
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Hi Steve, sorry I should've explained more about what I meant by background hum. I believe it's just the ambient room noise (right now, my humming computer, etc.) I only hear it when I have my headphones plugged into the mixer and the monitor and master stereo levels set to half. When I talk into the mic from about 24" away, I get to about -10 to 0dB on the meter, depending on how loud I'm talking (this is with the channel level at 3/4, the channel gain at 100%, the master stereo at 3/4 and the monitor level at 1/4 gives me a comfortable volume for listening through the headphones.

The sound levels are perfect (although a little "hissy, I think", but you don't really notice it once it gets to the computer) for what I want when I'm hearing it through the headphones (from the mixer, not computer), it's just that the levels seem fairly low once they get into Vegas... (ie. staying around -12db)

Should this be any cause for concern?


PS. No, I don't use a battery in my mic, just the phantom power.

Thanks for all the info by the way, you've been more than helpful in letting me know my optimal settings for recording, etc.
 
btownproductions said:
Hi Steve, sorry I should've explained more about what I meant by background hum. I believe it's just the ambient room noise (right now, my humming computer, etc.) I only hear it when I have my headphones plugged into the mixer and the monitor and master stereo levels set to half. When I talk into the mic from about 24" away, I get to about -10 to 0dB on the meter, depending on how loud I'm talking (this is with the channel level at 3/4, the channel gain at 100%, the master stereo at 3/4 and the monitor level at 1/4 gives me a comfortable volume for listening through the headphones.

The sound levels are perfect (although a little "hissy, I think", but you don't really notice it once it gets to the computer) for what I want when I'm hearing it through the headphones (from the mixer, not computer), it's just that the levels seem fairly low once they get into Vegas... (ie. staying around -12db)

Should this be any cause for concern?
Click to expand...

Probably not. Unless you're in an acoustically conditioned room, the environment is filled with a sea of direct and reflected sound that your ears and brain tune out. The mic hear's it perfectly fine however and so do you when you listen through cans or from a recording. Shotguns are not a narrow-beam pickup - if you look at the polar pattern for the NTG-2 it has a fairly broad front lobe and a large rear lobe so it is almost as sensitive to sounds coming from dead aft is it is to sounds from straight ahead. With sound hitting it from all sides, it's going to be a sensitive to many of them as it is to your voice. Plus if you are talking in a normal conversational tone rather than projecting your voice from the diaphram the way an actor, announcer, or public speaker is trained to do you're probably hitting the mic with a lot lower volume than you think you are.

Try making an enclosure for your mic from acoustic foam - get a big sheet of foam-core board from an art supply house and some acoustic foam, tape the board to make a box and line it with acousitic foam to make an open sided box about 2 feet square that will sit over the mic on its stand on your desk. You'll find most of the ambient buzz will dissappear.
 
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Thanks a lot Steve, that's good news! As I said, I do get a decent recording, I was just worried that I might not have been getting enough level, but from what you say it seems to be working just fine!

Thanks a lot for the help :beer:

Now I gotta just get out there and try it out for real
 
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