Basic Kino Flo Questions

M

Mark-P

Well-known member
I have access to a few Kino Flo fixtures, though I need to buy the bulbs, so I am hoping someone can help me a bit before taking a chance with buying bulbs for the wrong one. I want to shoot some product/toy videos and will use it as a key light.

1. all of them seem to have a sticker on the inside of the barndoor that reads "For Stage and Studio Fixture Systems; Not for Residential Use; Dry Locations"
I can't imagine there could be an issue with using them indoors in my house, though I just figured I'd ask you guys?

2. The models:

KINO FLO 4BANK (2’) equivalent of a 500W

KINO FLO DOUBLE (2’) equivalent of a 500W

KINO FLO DIVA LITE 400 (2’) equivalent of a ?

- is the difference between the 4Bank and the Double just the number of bulbs OR is there a difference in quality of light with different Kino fixtures?
- the bulbs for the Diva Lite are completely different from the other two. Is it just a different style or do they produce a different quality of light?

Thanks
 
A 2' 4Bank is 4x 2-foot long tubes in a fixture (roughly 2x1 in dimension)
A 2' 2Bank is 2x 2-foot long tubes in a fixture (roughly 2'x6")
Both the 2Bank and 4Bank have external ballasts to power each tube on or off independently. The fixtures are not dimmable. They both use the same bulbs and yield the same light, just in different amounts (no, the 2' 2Bank doesn't output as a 500W). They're more than enough punch in a typical home environment, and especially for tabletop work.

The Diva Lite 400 uses different bulbs, and the light quality is slightly different (but close enough for most uses). its dimension is identical to the 2' 4Bank. The main operational differences are that it has an integrated, dimmable ballast (operates with a knob on the back of the unit). I still use this regularly on pro jobs.

With the move to LED, lots of these are getting sidelined or sold off on the cheap. They still work just fine, however... you're just not getting color changes unless you change bulbs or gel, nor is simple battery operation possible, and the bulbs can be fragile. They can throw aimless light out the sides and often require some blackwrapping at setup. Most local studios still use them, because their downsides are non-issues in that environment.

There are LED retrofits possible, offering more durable tubes and the ability to lose the ballast on the 4/2Bank fixtures... usually with Quasar Science T8 single-color bulbs, bi-color crossfades, or whatever their RGBWW tube is called. These can be as simple as buying the bulbs and zip-tying them into the fixture's clips and powering via a velco'd-on power strip, or as complicated as custom fixture modifications (to jam more of the smaller quasar tubes in one fixture) and custom wiring harnesses. Visit Quasar Science's website for plenty more info... some searches for 'quasar kino' will also likely return details on that modification.

The Diva is more complicated to retrofit with its integrated ballast. Ushio made a 'fit' replacement single-color LED bulb, that they unfortunately discontinued because it wasn't technically rated for the ballast. Anecdotally, they can work fine if running the dimmer about halfway - they don't get any brighter beyond that point anyway. Nonetheless, everything in the world may explode if you do and yada yada yada, so safety n crap.

If you want to stick with flo tubes, I'm looking to sell off some 3200K diva bulbs since I did go with the LED replacements. The flo bulbs are getting difficult to find.

One extra note: also consider diffusion (usually floziers in 1/2 or full strength) and egg crate louvers for these. They're soft, but tabletop loves soft light with controlled spill. With the LED conversions, you can run diffusion underneath your louver... the flo bulbs get too hot to allow this, though.

Hope that's helpful
 
mcbob said:
The Diva Lite 400 uses different bulbs, and the light quality is slightly different (but close enough for most uses). its dimension is identical to the 2' 4Bank. The main operational differences are that it has an integrated, dimmable ballast (operates with a knob on the back of the unit). I still use this regularly on pro jobs.

With the move to LED, lots of these are getting sidelined or sold off on the cheap. They still work just fine, however... you're just not getting color changes unless you change bulbs or gel,
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the info and I will think about the bulbs...

1. Are people still buying Kino Flo fluorescent fixtures with the availability of LED fixtures? Are the days of being able to get bulbs for them coming to an end?

2. Which bulb am I better off with if I intend to just put gel over the fixture to change the light?

Thanks.
 
Mark-P said:
Thanks so much for the info and I will think about the bulbs...

1. Are people still buying Kino Flo fluorescent fixtures with the availability of LED fixtures? Are the days of being able to get bulbs for them coming to an end?

2. Which bulb am I better off with if I intend to just put gel over the fixture to change the light?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Speaking solely for myself, no. I pulled my Diva 400's and Barfly 200's from service several years ago. I bet I'm pushing five years since I've used them. The Diva's and Barfly's were VERY popular, especially in the TV interview world, but skin tones suffered. As mcbob stated, the light quality is not the same for the Diva/Barfly style lamps as it is for the larger lamps in the bigger fixtures. It has to do with the small surface area that the phosphors are on inside the lamps. And I think the manufacturing of the lamps changed, too. The last new set of lamps I put in(obviously a long time ago) were VERY magenta. And there were others out there who noted that they had noticed the same thing. There was some promise of new life for these old workhorses with the direct 1-to-1 Ushio LED lamps, but that died quickly. Plus they weren't bi-color. I'm done with single color temp fixtures, except in "HMI" situations. One of my guys, my go-to audio/gaffer put it great one day when we were loading out of a shoot, "The only reason to use Kino's, is if you don't give a $h!t about skin tones". I don't even really like Kino LED fixtures. They don't look as good as what's available from LitePanels, at least not the ones that I've seen in-person(Celebs). For me, at least, their day has passed.
 
1. So if I understand what you are saying, if skin tones are important don't use Kinos, though couldn't the extra magenta be removed in post? Is it just the extra work involved with having to remove the magenta, or is there something else going on? I shoot in a semi flat profile.

2. For simple product shoots I'm guessing Kinos are ok?

3. If I want to invest in one or two new fixtures that could be used for product shoots but also footage where skin tones are important, are LitePanels where I should be looking? I am not at all familiar with what I should be looking for, or how much I should be spending, though if I had to make a short list it would include:
- low power draw
- runs cool to the touch
- can change color to anything I want
- dimmable
- can create very softlight for video with people
- battery operated for portability (although not a critical criteria)
- under $800 for a fixture, have no idea how much to spend, just throwing out a number, though if I buy something new I want good quality and do not ming spending

Thanks!
 
Some answers, FWIW:
1. If you're working in controlled conditions, yes, you can certainly test your lights first and apply the right plus/minus green gel to suit, or apply color correction in camera or post. Get one of those small color charts to help.

2. They work fine

3. Litepanels tend to be expensive, especially if you want something in a ~2x1' size source. Early (and less expensive used) Litepanels fixtures (~pre-Astra) have pitiful output and terrible green cast. The newer fixtures are altogether better than Kinos, sure, but they are not cheap. For example, B&H is currently running a sale on the Astra 6x 1x1' panels, at about $750/each... that's JUST the lamp. No diffuser. No battery. No battery plate.

BOTTOM LINE: if the fixtures are dirt cheap and/or you plan to use them as a base for retrofit or have time to test and adjust for any color issues, they can still make sense. If it's even money with a comparable output LED fixture, don't bother.

So then...

There's an associated thread in this subforum with a number of good recommendations on a multi-use kit. LED-wise, I'm very much liking the 'orchestra' lights from Luxli... Viola2, Cello, Timpani, and Taiko. They don't have the punch of Litepanels' fixtures, but in an extreme pinch I can key with a pair of diffused Violas and not hate the results.

Lupo makes awesome panel lights, but they don't start getting really "affordable" until the Actionpanel and small Smartpanel fixtures. Each of those has enough punch to bounce or diffuse.

I actually don't mind the Kino LED's, although Run&Gun works at a higher level than I do. They're also a bit spendy.

On the less-expensive-but-good side, I'm just going to start throwing names out there... Quasar Science, Intellytech, Dracast. I adore Quasar tubes for tabletop. Intellytech has numerous foldable mats and insane output COB and fresnels. Dracast are generally less expensive and less output, but can be better value than the plethora of Chicom LEDs, aren't green-cast pieces of plastic crap, and are US-made.

Equal sides the vengeful/overly cautious sides of me suggest avoiding any Chinese company light... Aputure, Godox, Nanlite, etc. The pop-up small names already suffer from spotty QC and zero customer service, and the bigger names... well, I think Western relations with China are not going to improve, with possible rapidity.
 
Mark-P said:
1. So if I understand what you are saying, if skin tones are important don't use Kinos, though couldn't the extra magenta be removed in post? Is it just the extra work involved with having to remove the magenta, or is there something else going on? I shoot in a semi flat profile.

2. For simple product shoots I'm guessing Kinos are ok?

3. If I want to invest in one or two new fixtures that could be used for product shoots but also footage where skin tones are important, are LitePanels where I should be looking? I am not at all familiar with what I should be looking for, or how much I should be spending, though if I had to make a short list it would include:
- low power draw
- runs cool to the touch
- can change color to anything I want
- dimmable
- can create very softlight for video with people
- battery operated for portability (although not a critical criteria)
- under $800 for a fixture, have no idea how much to spend, just throwing out a number, though if I buy something new I want good quality and do not ming spending

Thanks!
Click to expand...

mcbob said:
Some answers, FWIW:
1. If you're working in controlled conditions, yes, you can certainly test your lights first and apply the right plus/minus green gel to suit, or apply color correction in camera or post. Get one of those small color charts to help.

2. They work fine

3. Litepanels tend to be expensive, especially if you want something in a ~2x1' size source. Early (and less expensive used) Litepanels fixtures (~pre-Astra) have pitiful output and terrible green cast. The newer fixtures are altogether better than Kinos, sure, but they are not cheap. For example, B&H is currently running a sale on the Astra 6x 1x1' panels, at about $750/each... that's JUST the lamp. No diffuser. No battery. No battery plate.

BOTTOM LINE: if the fixtures are dirt cheap and/or you plan to use them as a base for retrofit or have time to test and adjust for any color issues, they can still make sense. If it's even money with a comparable output LED fixture, don't bother.

So then...

There's an associated thread in this subforum with a number of good recommendations on a multi-use kit. LED-wise, I'm very much liking the 'orchestra' lights from Luxli... Viola2, Cello, Timpani, and Taiko. They don't have the punch of Litepanels' fixtures, but in an extreme pinch I can key with a pair of diffused Violas and not hate the results.

Lupo makes awesome panel lights, but they don't start getting really "affordable" until the Actionpanel and small Smartpanel fixtures. Each of those has enough punch to bounce or diffuse.

I actually don't mind the Kino LED's, although Run&Gun works at a higher level than I do. They're also a bit spendy.

On the less-expensive-but-good side, I'm just going to start throwing names out there... Quasar Science, Intellytech, Dracast. I adore Quasar tubes for tabletop. Intellytech has numerous foldable mats and insane output COB and fresnels. Dracast are generally less expensive and less output, but can be better value than the plethora of Chicom LEDs, aren't green-cast pieces of plastic crap, and are US-made.

Equal sides the vengeful/overly cautious sides of me suggest avoiding any Chinese company light... Aputure, Godox, Nanlite, etc. The pop-up small names already suffer from spotty QC and zero customer service, and the bigger names... well, I think Western relations with China are not going to improve, with possible rapidity.
Click to expand...

For me, I came up in an era when you did it right in-camera, because "fix it in post" wasn't a real option like it is today and I was doing mostly broadcast/network work with a huge live component and recorded stuff usually received no/minimal post, so removing a bad magenta cast(or really any deficiency) wasn't really an option. I still do not trust those on the post side to properly color correct/adjust exposure or contrast. I still want to hand over ready to air footage.

I don't know if I'd put it like that Kevin, that I'm working at a higher level than you. A lot of people on here consider a lot of what I do pretty pedestrian and probably look down on it. I'm just picky about skin tones.

I do have a lot of Litepanels, but I think the light quality/skin tones you get with Intellytech fixtures is top-notch, especially for the price. I mix and match them with LP's and use them as the only "panels", too. My only real issues with the Intellytechs are that they are are erector sets and the older ballasts/controllers are janky. But the assembly/tear-down is the trade off for lights of that size to pack down that small(I have two 2x2's and the 3x4.5).
 
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