barry green could probably help me out :)

Michael Summers

Michael Summers

Well-known member
more and more, i keep wanting to make the jump to 16mm. i mean, im just so addicted to it. i *****ing* love it. i find myself taking home the negatives from class and editing in all my free time. friday night? working with film. saturday night?! working with more film. just want some input: i'm contemplating selling my dvx and buying a canon scoopic and setting up a lab in my basement. for an aspiring artist, how do you guys look upon this? of course its not digital, i know that allready. will the (estimated 2000$) money i make off my dvx be reasonable to start shooting and developing 16mm?
 
nobody likes the dvx because its digital, or rather theres nothing inherently better about a digital picture, most of us just dont want the hassel and expense of film.

if u ENJOY working with it (more then digital) then sure, of coarse, sell of ur DVX. But as for how far 2000 will get u, not very, even i know that, after ur camera and setting us a lab, 6mm film is what, $100 a min? If so that even devoting all ur dvx money just to film would only get you 20 min to play with. yikes

most of us just can't afford, i sure cant. Give me $5 for a 60 min tape over film anyday :)
 
Funny you mention this - I was just thinking about this very same thing - and still have been while browsing the forums.

I think 2000 would be a godsend - in terms of you get to play around with 20 minutes of stuff to get the feel of it down and how to work with it. I was actually going around a minute ago on google looking for places in MN that have older 16mm cams and cheaper film...
 
you and me man. ****, we should like... put our money together and set up a super 16mm production company. and no, film isnt that expensive, maybe 35mm but im paying for the class i know what im spending... it aint 100 for a minute its been $50 for 2.5 minutes including processing (reversal stock)
 
I wouldn't get a scoopic, I'd get at least a CP16/R. Unless you absolutely positively won't ever want to record dialogue; in that case a Scoopic is a fine choice.

I still have something like four or five film cameras around here; 16, S16, and 35. Much as I love the DVX, it isn't film. Film is just something else entirely. And Michael, if that's what you like, why not experiment with it?

Film equipment has gotten amazingly inexpensive in the last few years too.

As for film prices... short ends in 16mm aren't all that common, so you don't normally save that much by going that route. If you want to shoot reversal and process it yourself and aren't going to be transferring it to video for any reason, then that's obviously the least-expensive way to go. Definitely join the Film Arts Foundation, it's $45/year last I checked but you get 20% off Fuji stock, and I'm pretty sure members and students still get at least 10% off Kodak stock. You can't home-process Kodachrome, and I don't know if you can home-process Ektachrome movie film or not. I think B&W is no problem to home process, but I haven't processed/developed my own film for 25 years so don't take what I say there as current info!

If you send it out to a lab you can find processing under 20 cents a foot; that'd be less than 20 bucks for a 100-ft roll (or, about $8 per minute). I think there was a cheap b&w lab named "Franklin Film Lab" that did processing for a dime... but I just looked 'em up and it looks like they closed shop.

If you're willing to take the time and effort to process yourself, you can probably get those costs down.

The way I look at it, Michael, you sound like someone who's just discovered painting. People may say "why bother, just use a digital still camera and shoot it and you're done", but you like the whole process, mixing the paints, the texture of the canvas, etc... and hey, what's wrong with that? I remember making cheeseball Super 8 movies where we needed lightning bolts to fly out of a guy's fingers, and there's nothing like stretching the film out over a light table and getting out a magnifying glass and a needle, and hand-scratching lightning bolts onto the film, frame by frame...

It's a totally different art form. And you will do things with film that you'd never do in video. Like I say about writing -- you can write with pen & paper, or you can write with a word processor. Obviously a word processor is infinitely faster and more efficient -- but will you write the *same* if you write with pen 'n' paper? With the pen it takes so much longer to do anything that you'll probably have a lot more time to THINK about what you're writing, as you're writing it. I think that changes the writing process...

Same with film. It's so different to be working with the actual medium, it can change the way you choose to work. And it's a vastly more limited medium... there are so many millions of things you can do in computer editing that you can't do with film... therefore, you have to be much more creative with film. Creativity doesn't spawn from our freedoms, it comes from our limitations -- because you need to be creative to get around your limitations.

So -- good luck. If you're drawn to the art form, embrace it. It's the only true American art form, and you'll learn things from film that you'd never learn from video!
 
that was awesome barry... the only thing is i havnt learned how to record sound with film which was why i was debating the scoopic. and everything is digital now... i looked in bookstores all over chicago and couldnt find a 16mm production book. whats the best place/book to learn from, specifically with the workflow. by next summer i think i could have a lot of the plans for the darkroom studio etc and have enough money from working the whole year to pull it off. my interest may be short lived and thats why im projecting building any kind of studio until next summer, let myself think about spending all that money to make real, handmade art. the first thing to do is, LEARN. were can i find out the most information about chemical process/film accessories?

thanks barry
 
Always one step ahead of me! ditto...

It's looking like I might be able to get my hands on a ARRI SR-2 but I can't seem to find any reviews or information on exactly how it would perform or whatnot with a 40MM T2.1... any good sites or things of interest where this kind of stuff is discussed regularly?
 
Monte said:
It's looking like I might be able to get my hands on a ARRI SR-2 but I can't seem to find any reviews or information on exactly how it would perform or whatnot with a 40MM T2.1...
Click to expand...

Hi,

I interned on an SR2 (among others) during the past two years or so. Fab camera.
Seriously, though, consider the maintainance and repair costs. They are extraordinary! Film cameras are mechanical devices which must be kept in tight tolerances to work well. Even newer cameras crap out sometimes...

An overhaul should be done every three years on a camera like an SR2. Most likely whoever is selling it probably knows it needs maintainence, hence the reason they are selling it. An overhaul will cost between $1440 - $2500 for labor. Parts are even more extraordinary.

If only getting one lens, a zoom would be a more versatile choice.

Brian

monte said:
any good sites or things of interest where this kind of stuff is discussed regularly?
Click to expand...

SEARCH the forums on Cinematography.com, but post only if necessary. There is very little tolerance for students / those interested in learning about equipment. They are very, very helpful folks there, of course. Better to research A LOT before asking questions on that forum, at least in my experience.

Also, cinematography.net, again SEARCH before asking, there they actually ban students that asks basic questions in the pro forums! so.. please respect that!
 
Get Rick Schmidt's early version of "Feature Filmmaking at Used Car Prices", I think in there he even talks about how to build your own flatbed editing station...
 
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