Baraka shot

D

djembeplay

Well-known member
Hey,

There is a shot in Baraka that I am thinking about... and dont know how they got it. For anyone who has seen it, I am referring to the time-lapse of a tree from a low angle. It is a relatively long timelapse, with the sky transitioning from day to dark night. The entire shot is moving very slowly towards the tree while also slowly panning up. The only thing I can think is that they are using some sort of programable track that slowly and precisely moves the camera to the position that is programmed. I want one... lol.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
You can use remote pan/tilt head and swap out the standard use stepper motors and replace the motors and gearbox to approximately 3000:1 ratio, it takes approximately 1 hour (or 2? - I forgot) to complete a 360 degree revolution on X and Y axis. Thus you can record timelapse and have a timed pan and tilt move, depending on the amplitude values you set on the pot's and joy stick controlling the device. I am referring to how it is done with a Camera Turret PT24 pan/tilt head, photo of the device in my photo gallery, see website below.

Baraka, just blew my mind, watched it many times in the cinema when it came around from time to time, though the print circulating here was looking a little thrashed last I saw. An HD-DVD version would be a nice replacement of the DVD. Not sure what intervelometer device they used for Baraka, and they were in those remote locations (electricity/batteries?). Truly an amazing and inspiring movie.
 
Wow, that sounds like a fun toy. Are there higher mechanical ratios used as well? It seems like that time-lapse must have been at least 5 hours if I remember right.

Also, they were also on a track of some sort, which was moving towards the tree. That is probobly the same principal idea, right? Meaning... there is a high ratio pully or something to move it slowly along a track.

How much can you get into a setup like this for? One eye and both legs maybe?

I wonder if I could build one out of those old RC race tracks... lol.
 
From a VFX point of view, you can use a Milo Moco rig, having pan/tilt, dolly and crane/jib controlled and repeatable movements. However, for a dolly move, you could incorporate a gear controlled device to a dolly wheel system and create a slow and evenly moving dolly, using motors and gears like used in my PT24 pan/tilt head. The weight and leverage factor is something to consider, especially if you are moving the whole dolly rig, not just moving the weight of the pan/tilt head and camera load.

Regarding higher mechanical ratios, in my PT24, yes, I have to change the motors and the gears to get the appropriate ratio for a timelapse type device. I already have pot's on the control box, so I have speed variations there as well. For a five hour or any for that matter, you would have to do some calculations before hand, especially if you have a 70mm film camera being used, which was used for all or some shot of Baraka, if I remember correctly. Again, the intervelometer device they used is what I would like to know more about to understand more about how they did some of those amazing shots.

PT20 and PT24 start from around US$1600-2000 approximately, from memory. The motors and gear replacement would set you back approx $225 per axis, though you would also have the original motors for normal use of the pan/tilt head. Not sure of the current prices. As for one of the least expense expense pan/tilt heads available look at this, it is limited to a certain weight load and is to fast for timelapse. Not sure if inside it could have it's gears changed, if you could remove the outer case and apply a massive gear of some kind to slow it down.

I am not sure what you mean by old RC track and intended use. Sounds like it may not be strong enough, if you refer to a rig sitting on it and if using RC servo motors, I am not sure if they would have enough torque to handle and move the weight of a pan/tilt head and camera loaded. I use servo based motor for my follow focus unit, however, one of my Nikon lenses has a stiff focus ring, so I stopped using it for now, fearing I would burn out the servo motor, so I doubt if a heavy camera, etc, would work.
 
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Wow... crazy... I wonder if there would be any way to rig up that little $120 head you linked to.

I was just looking at a little info on Wikipedia. It says in the same year Fricke did Baraka, he also make a short film called "Chronos". It could be cool.

I didn't realize he made this in 1992. My mind is sort of blown. I have been a Michael Stearns (he did the music) fan for a long time and had the soundtrack to Baraka before I saw the movie. I thought it was a more recent work...

It's so nice to see cinema this beautiful and semi-experimental. I get so sick of all the narrative drama (no offense to anyone...). It seems like the film camera is rarely used with the creative spirit of photographers. Meaning... how often to you see works like Baraka that are more like moving picture montages... resourcefully using natural light... almost like a photo collection book you would pick up in Barnes and Noble. It is relatively untouched ground.

I dont know much about intervalometers. I dont have much film experience, so I am used to digital shutter adjustments. They must have had something that would give them an incredibly slow shutter speed though, as everything is so smooth. They probably needed beefy ND filters to compensate too. Now that I think of it, though, your right... that IS complex. They would have to gradually open the shutter in smooth correlation with day transitioning into night... crazy.

As for the RC car idea... I was just kidding. I apologize, my sarcasm wasn't clear without a face behind it. On a serious note, however, I am trying to think of a way I could rig up a slow moving track cheaply (I am on a low budget). One thought was to run a small motor that turned a winding spool. I could have the tripod on a track with strings tied around each of the legs. The other end of the strings would be slowly wrapping around the spool attached to the motor. This would... in theory... slowly and evenly pull the tripod along the track. Hmmm....
 
Yes, I was also wondering what type of intervelometer device they used for aperture variations, like the timelapse sunset to night shots, etc.

Good luck with the timelapse dolly development. I thought about making a few movie production devices once. The problem for me, I would probably end making something like, The Homer Mobile.
 
Hahaha... The Homer Mobile.


Thanks for the luck... you never know when that stuff comes in handy. This could be an interesting experiment.


(cut to 3 days after I start building it: HVX swinging from a tree by fishing line; me pulling slowly on the opposite end of the line.)
 
wtf, mate? That looks so complicated it's insane. The pictures look like there are about 3 billion parts to it.

I noticed they dont list any prices. It's that suave 'when it gets to this level, price doesnt matter' attitude. Maybe there are only a few that they rent out for big productions...?

I think I could built something better with fishing line and some toothpics.
 
Yes, a high end production rig, quote on the gig and the engineering involved, not a price list item. There is a relatively new production and VFX invention now that incorporates 4 programmable ropes (think of the 4 corners of a box, ropes feed up to those points somewhere above you, like support beams or other complicating rigging involving massive cranes) on winches, and a programmable pan/tilt head (Pee-Pod). Using a software GUI, you program in repeatable moves in a 3D space via computer, adjusting the 4 ropes length, and the pan/tilt head position for camera direction. I saw a demo of it last week, and was shown how they acquired some of the footage for Superman Returns. I was blown away by this rig, as it can do shots that would require a combination of track, dolly and pan/tilt head (if at all possible), and is totally repeatable. Floating motion control rig. I am drooling to get a shot with it one day.

So invent your device man. :thumbsup:
 
Haha, it is running through my mind lately... ideas on how I could put it together. I have been thinking along the lines of no motors, but a simple pulley system... somehow lol. Then I dont have to worry about power, but I would have to crank the thing for as long as the shot went... but I could do that. It would be a good workout...

The 4-rope invention was used on a Spiderman? Thats interesting... I think I saw on their site that they used the spidercam for the first one, right? Is this one smaller? It still is for huge budget hollywood films like the spidercam, right? I mean, it isnt consumer based at all is it (or at least semi-consumer based)?

Interesting. Let's steal one.
 
To my knowledge, they used both for acquiring shots/VFX plates for Superman Returns. These are expensive items to hire, not typical indie movie making items in the budget.

Regarding your pulley system, say your timelapse was recording frames at 1 frame per 5 second interval, and you knew when these frames were triggering. Then instead of you rotating constantly, at a consistent pace, a crank that is geared to slowly pull a rope that will move your rig (dolly?), you could between this interval, complete a certain revolution, like one full rotation of the handle or one click of a ratchet system that moves moves a gear that slowly moves the rope over time, then that moves the measured interval until the next frames triggers 5 seconds later.

The low geared stepper motors on the motor pan/tilt head would constantly move a small amount (even though a frame is only triggered every 5 seconds), where as I am referring to moving that small amount manually, as long as you perform it before the next frame triggers. That way you don't have to be perfectly timed and paced while winding some handle to the device for 20 minutes or more per session.
 
Ya! Great Idea.

I am thinking of long time-lapse shots, too... hours. I would like to get some cool shots of shadows shifting in the woods, for example, over maybe 5 hours while the camera slowly moves... could be way cool.

Any ideas on how I could rig such an 'in-between frame crank system' (we are going to need another name, lol).

How about a suspended weight of some sort with resistance at some point... so I just pull the weight up when it starts getting near the ground. Since gravity is a constant... and hopefully the resistance on the weight is fairly constant... that could theoretically pull the tripod at a constant rate. Actually, with this, I might be able to lift the weight high enough so that one 'cycle' of it falling to the ground would last much longer than just once per frame-grab. And, I could just look at it and tell that it needs to be lifted again as opposed to precisely timing the cranking of someone in between each frame-grab.

Hmmm... I am excited.

Thanks a ton for the insight and help with the ideas, by the way.
 
A pulley system is something I have no knowledge to contribute.

If you are concerned about power, then there are good portable power options you can consider. Not sure what power requirements you would end up needing. For my PT24 (12v), I have just purchased some Tekkeon MP3400 for use to power at remote locations, together with powering some of my Vidled lights, etc. The Tekkeon is switchable between 6v to 19v. Not sure how long they would last for timelapse of a 5 hour pan/tilt.

It seems you are pursuing more along the lines of moving the whole unit, on a dolly. If you go the route of using motors, like the PT24, it is noted that I can perform a pan at a linear speed, as weight is distributed evenly. However, when I perform a tilt from the horizontal balancing point, and the motor then engages the weight of the camera during the tilt up or down, then the speed varies, and I have to ride the speed control pot to increase power to the motor to perform the task, when used for non-timelapse shots at normal speeds. So if you were using a motor device to move a dolly, I would note that, unless you are on a totally flat surface, the dolly speed movement may not be a linear. I am saying this, because I wonder if the same result would apply to a pulley system, in the event the dolly track was not on a totally flat surface.

The other issue is having a motor with enough torque to consistantly move the dolly device. Maybe this Camtram System is a design you should consider? Good luck.
 
'Baraka' has inspried me for years now. i finally took action and had a rig built. i'm about to take it on its maiden voyage to Utah-red rock country. attached is a picture of what my rocket scientist (literally) friends came up with. i depart in a few days so i'll check back in on this in about a month and a half. hopefully i'll have some interesting footage to share.

good luck!!

http://www.i8bozo.com/weblog/moshun-hed-sm.jpg
 
Wow, that 'camtram' system looks great, actually. Although, as of right now, it is a bit out of my price range. I am still saving for an HVX.

I saw these $250 jobs on EBAY that were along the same lines as the 'camtram', but looked simpler and more flimsy. But, they did look like they would get the job done, and considering I would be heavily modifying the original design and that they are so cheap in comparison to the price range of the 'camtram', that might be a good option...

naturelibrary, it sounds like you are into a similar type of shooting as I. I am jealous that you live in New Zealand and also jealous of your upcoming trip through the canyonlands.

Have a great time. I would love to see some of the footage you get.
 
djembeplay, if you can design and actually build devices or have an engineering friend with equipment help, you could probably make a lot of one off stuff at a reasonable price. I don't have such equipment, capabilities or engineering friends. I do keep trying to figure things out or how I would go about the next shot/VFX.

naturelibrary, that is an awesome and compact pan/tilt head you have had made. It is 'geared' for timelapse specifically? Keep us apprised of the shoot and outcome. Have a great trip.
 
i've had the thing created with the ability to move at varying speeds which ultimately will allow me to find a speed setting that works well for the time-lapse in any given case. since this will be the first foray into the field with the thing, i expect a lot of trial and error. the first time i turned it on at the house left me with a result which was far too fast. the second attempt which you can see on my blog i8bozo.com (click the helicopter) is much nicer. i'll be sure to keep you abreast of the results when i have them.

all the best!
 
000399 file worked a treat. Thanks for sharing and well done on making your own beast. Man, looks like you even had the base plate CNC'd. I guess next is a motion control dolly/crane (with memory/repeatable), then take over the world.:D Cheers.
 
Ya, sweet vid man. Keep us posted. I actually am planning a trip through the rockies / canyon-lands myself with an hvx.
 
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