Bag Recorder Upgrade

G

ggrantly

Veteran
Hello Listers,

Presently, I do some video for hire (corporate and infomercial) and am trying to develop my own content which if successful would be suitable for cable or internet. I would like to try producing a music video, but would probably need to hire out the audio for that. In my market, I can get plenty of semi-skilled folks to help with my productions, but most don't have any gear, so I need and prefer to own. I record to cam and or a DR-100 with a SD302 in front when needed. I also have a Traveler Mk3 and laptop if I am stopped in one spot and need four channels. I already have a decent selection of mid-range mics and wireless.

I want to upgrade my kit to include a true bag recorder. I am drawn to audio (foolish me) and might try to hire out as a small time audio guy as time goes by and I improve my skill level. So I am thinking about buying a SD recorder. I am willing to spend some $$ but don't want to overdo it.

Given my intentions to hire out, will the two channel 702 be enough or should I spend the ranch on a 744T? Is time code expected (702 vs 702T)? If you use four channels, how do you handle the mixing given that a 302 has three channels. How could a 552 figure into this? I could sell my present 302 for a different configuration?

Your suggestion?

Thanks in advance,
Grant
 
If it were me, I'd wait until after NAB. There are some rumours circulating about the Zaxcom Nomad, which might be a very viable alternative to the mixer/744T combo - since it's supposed to be a combined mixer/recorder.

With the 302/744T combo, you'd have two "fader-driven" recording channels and then you could use the 744T's preamps for two "extra" channels if required. You'd have 5 mic inputs total, even though the 3 on the 302 would have to be mixed to two channels since there are no direct outs. To me, that would be a reasonably flexible system that could be built upon as required.

Reading that back, I'm not entirely sure it's clear. There are lots of possibilities. If you want to start exploring options sooner than later, maybe try renting a 744T for a week or two to see if it fits into your workflow with the rest of your existing setup?
 
You could do many jobs well with the SD 302 going to the DR-100. Or, if you want more than two channels recorded, get a Roland R-44 (great solid unit, good for bag use) that you could use with the 302, if you don't need timecode, and have the same amount of channels as with a 744T.
 
Though the DR-100 doesn't have the snob appeal, it performs quite well with the 302 in front. It really sucks as a bag recorder. For my own work, at present, two channels is enough. I was wondering, if you hire out as a sound guy (or gal) are you expected to have more than two tracks, and if so, what combination of gear do you use. In this case, I specified SD recorders, but the Roland seems like a decent alternative.

Grant
 
It really depends on the job. It's best to be armed with enough tracks to handle whatever is thrown at you.
 
Dave, that is an obvious answer. I am asking what the audio guys here do offer, how they have configured the mixing of the tracks they do offer, and how they would spend my money.

Grant
 
Here's what I carry. Some is considered "industry standard" some is not. I've yet to get complaints about my sound not being up to par.

Mixer: PSC Alphamix with 3 NP-1 batteries and ASPEN sequential charger
Recorder: Tascam DR-680, replaced a DR-100 which I still have, powered by the aux power of the Alphamix
Shotgun: Sennheiser K3/ME-80
Hyper: Avantone CK-1
Gitzo 10ft boom
Wind Protection: Rycote Wind Protection System with full blimp/windjammer and lyre suspension (this has saved me many, many times when a softie was just not enough and have recieved many compiments from directors amazed that the dialog was recorded so clean when there was so much wind on location
Wireless: 2 channels of sennheiser G3
lavs: 2 sennheiser me-2, 2 Tram TR-50s, 2 Oscar Soundtech 801s
Rolls PM55 for the boom op
Two beta cables with confidence returns for camera feeds
M-Audio IE-30 in-ear monitors
Sony 7506 headphones
Porta-Brace bag

and of course the plethera of cables, connectors, adapters

Each channel on the Alphamix feeds an iso track on the tascam, I also send a two channel mix from the Alphamix to tracks 5 and 6 on the recorder.
Typically I send the camera the shotgun on one channel and the lavs on the other channel.
If the script supervisor is on their game, I'll just speak notes to them during the takes, otherwise, I keep my own log with notes.
At the end of the day, or during breaks, I download the files from the Tascam to my laptop, and using SD Wave Agent, rename all the files to scene, take, and mic(s). (Hence the vital importance of a slate and the shot being called by the slate op, uh, slater, uh, whoever.
At the end of the wrap I burn a DVD with all the named files and hand it to the director, or AD.

So I provide:
Iso tracks for each mic
A two track mix with boom on one track and the lavs on the other.

What I hope to add in the next 6 months:
1 more channel of Sennheiser G3
K-tek Avalon carbon fiber pole
Comtek system for sending wireless feeds to director, producer, and script supervisor
A replacement for my K3/ME-80, likely an MKH-70



ggrantly said:
Dave, that is an obvious answer. I am asking what the audio guys here do offer, how they have configured the mixing of the tracks they do offer, and how they would spend my money.

Grant
Click to expand...
 
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I would recommend you wait until NAB (it's just in a few weeks) to see what's new from the likes of Zaxcom, Sound Devices, and others, as their new offerings may be of interest to you. Of course, then it's a matter of "how soon can we actually get our hands on these new machines?". Sometimes things are available right away, sometimes in a few months, and other times, not for a year...or two...or three.
 
I'm not in a hurry, I am mostly concerned with the track management and recorders. I have been collecting my kit over the last several years and am decently equipped for what I am doing.

Grant
 
polecat said:
+1 on NAB
Click to expand...

Zaxcom will be very expensive.
There are some rumors about integrated wireless and that is $4000 per channel.

BTW nobody mentioned MixPre SD744t combo

I find myself using that instead of 442/744t when I have very long run and gun shoots.

It is way lighter and power hungry and gives you 4 iso channels.
With some getting used to it can be a great tool.

A quick plug :
A friend of mine is selling 744t mixpre combo for $3400
Located in Las Vegas. Can be picked up at NAB
 
I should qualify that my work is primarily classical music recording, for which i have a number of different recording levels, from SD302 direct to camera as a budget audio package to an 800-lb ProTools setup.

These days, my workhorse for common gigs is often the 744t, or 744/302 combo. However, had it been available at the time, I think the 788t would give me more versatility...

In any case, I haven't tried the Roland, but have played with 'em, and looked at the manuals, etc. I think the 744 is more than worth the price difference if you can afford it. Redundancy of recordings (e.g., can record to HD, CF, and DVD at the same time), quality of sound, solid feel of the whole thing, great metering, monitoring modes.... a great unit that really inspires (and earns) confidence in any situation.

Cheers,
Barry
 
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