Bag power

G

ggrantly

Veteran
As mentioned in another thread, I have been upgrading my bag. Now I am faced with a need for new power for a 744 + 302. Up to now, I've been using Tekkeon batteries with a splitter y cable. I went to buy another Tekkeon, but it seems that Tekkeon has issues; they are no longer selling the 3450 series and they are not answering their phone. Bad sign. Too bad, I have a couple of batteries from them and they worked well for me at a very reasonable cost. So now I am faced with needing a new battery system to run my bag and more. After doing some online research, I just wasn't happy with anything due to cost or other issues. I already have so many different battery systems for cameras and the like it just makes me nauseous to think about adding another new system.

Note I also need 12v power for a couple of other things, so I want the versatility of 4 pin xlr for distribution. Remote audio has a nice XLR distribution box for merely $220 ouch!

One considerations is 12v versus 7.2v camera batteries. The 744 uses Sony L series native or 12v external, but the 302 needs 12v and I have a few other 12v needs. I might consider running two L series together for my 12v needs. 14v is ok for my devices.

NP-1 batteries would do, but good ones seem pretty expensive for what you get, then add a cup, charger, and distribution = big ouch.

D-Tap Anton Bauer or similar means I'd get into my IRA

I use some Bescor bricks now, which are priced right, but they are pretty heavy for an audio bag.

OK there is the dilemma, what are you using and why?

Grant
 
I have Remote Audio BDS systems in all three of my audio bags and use A/B / GoldMount batteries to power them since that's the system I'm already entrenched in with my cameras. Almost all audio guys I know power their bags with a Remote Audio BDS system. Not cheap, but almost nothing of quality in this business is. Actually the BDS itself isn't that bad, you'll end up spending more on the power cables. A good BDS system will last you a long time, though. My oldest system is over eight years old and still going strong.
 
Run&Gun, your on the right track combining battery systems, but my cams all run on 7.2v, Panny and Canon, so just a different paradigm.

I should add here that I rarely if ever work with my audio gear more than a couple hours at a wack. So I don't really need a high endurance system. Mostly I want the reliability and not an entirely new different battery system. I have to have the LP-E6 Canon cam batteries and have thought about buying a pile of them. In the video world, there are quality "2 in series" boxes for these to run 12v cams like the Black Magic cams. I've also started to embrace assembling a little power box, maybe in a Pelican 1060 that would have a couple of XLR outs and maybe a charger inlet port combined with a battery plate.

I don't want to get too far off the reservation here, but the thought of spending well north of a grand on bag power is just chafing me.

Grant
 
I use NP1 batteries (among other cheaper backups) with the RA power distro.
The 744 will run on 10–18 Volts via the external power input.
 
need advice about BDS

need advice about BDS

I am new to location audio, and building up my audio kit. I need to look into a BDS to power a Sound Devices 552 mixer/recorder and a Tascam DR680 recorder.

Can anyone explain how to a BDS system will power devices that have different power requirements? The SD552 runs on 4XAA batteries, while the DR680 runs on 8XAA batteries. Do the devices just draw the voltage they need from a high power battery (like the 14V NP-1 batteries)?

Would I simply buy something like the Remote Audio BDS system (BDSv4), a battery cup, NP-1 battery, charger and cables? I don't want to damage any gear, of course, and I haven't been able to figure out how to configure a BDS.

I see some used chargers on ebay, and wonder if I can safely save some $ going that route. Although a BDS is expensive, reducing downtime and simplifying my power requirements will be worth it in the long run.
 
If you have even beginner level soldering skills it's just easier to buy pigtailed cables (dc plugs, np1 cup, etc)
and just wire your own (skipping the box)

I have a RA distro and all the cabling that is extremely over priced in my opinion in my bigger bag.
In my smaller bag I've used my own for years and it works perfectly.
One difference is there is no master on/off switch but to me that's not a biggie at all.
 
Most all SD gear will run on 10-18V DC through the ext. power plug... typically a Hirose connector. (a 'fun' solder project)
Lectros about the same. The Tascam runs on 9-14 volts. (BTW, the user manuals state power requirements.. RTFM) Or take the whole rig to one of the usual suspect shops and pay them to set-up the power distro.
 
Rick - I did RTFM (can't find anything that states 9-14 volts), but I wasn't sure if one battery can power different devices that have different volatge requirements. My soldering skills are very good, but I don't trust guessing when it comes to voltage that might damage my gear.

Rick R said:
Most all SD gear will run on 10-18V DC through the ext. power plug... typically a Hirose connector. (a 'fun' solder project)
Lectros about the same. The Tascam runs on 9-14 volts. (BTW, the user manuals state power requirements.. RTFM) Or take the whole rig to one of the usual suspect shops and pay them to set-up the power distro.
Click to expand...
 
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"Rick - I wasn't sure if one battery can power different devices that have different voltage requirements. I don't trust guessing when it comes to voltage that might damage my gear."
- Yes, a 12 volt or 14 volt battery would safely power both your 552 mixer and 680 recorder.

"My soldering skills are very good"
- You're gonna need em' with the Hirose.
 
Thanks, Rick!

Rick R said:
"Rick - I wasn't sure if one battery can power different devices that have different voltage requirements. I don't trust guessing when it comes to voltage that might damage my gear."
- Yes, a 12 volt or 14 volt battery would safely power both your 552 mixer and 680 recorder.

"My soldering skills are very good"
- You're gonna need em' with the Hirose.
Click to expand...
 
Rippie said:
If you have even beginner level soldering skills it's just easier to buy pigtailed cables (dc plugs, np1 cup, etc)
and just wire your own (skipping the box)

I have a RA distro and all the cabling that is extremely over priced in my opinion in my bigger bag.
In my smaller bag I've used my own for years and it works perfectly.
One difference is there is no master on/off switch but to me that's not a biggie at all.
Click to expand...

This is the direction I am heading, though I question the amount of time for me to do a bunch of soldering - shrink wrap - strain relief. Still thinking about battery options but am probably going to go with the Canon 7.2V and find a series solution for my audio bag.

Check out this dual battery plate. I could do a little surgery and add a XLR output. The result would be fairly clean and economical and could be repurposed for things besides my audio bag. Since I already have the LP-E6 batteries for my cams, I wouldn't be adding a whole new battery system like a gold mount or NP1.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ools_pgrid4klp_power_grid_for_blackmagic.html
 
most professional sound equipment has a voltage range it will operate in. NP-1 batteries give you 12 volts, which is usually right in the middle of the operating voltage range of equipment.

In terms of battery distribution, I'd go with an NP-1 into a battery distribution system. There is the Remote Audio system, Sound Guys Solutions, and Cable Techniques setups out there. The nice thing about the boxes is they have RF filters built in. These things are basically have one power input from your battery and then a bunch of outputs to run to your gear. Pretty straight forward stuff, really. It's like running cables on your home theater system, but smaller.

If you really don't want to throw down the cash for an NP-1 set up with a BDS, and if..as you describe, the rig won't be used for long periods of time, you can maybe get away with using rechargeable lithium ion AA batteries in the 302 and the big sony camera batteries on the back of the 744. Those should last you most of an 8 hour day.
 
Hey Dave, with all due respect, and you deserve plenty, I don't think you read the first page of this thread which included my twisted reasoning to try and save a few bucks and still get a decent outcome. I really want to avoid another new battery system to go with the many I already have. And, I just don't want to throw down a grand for a part time audio bag power system which would be the case with a NP1 system. Granted, doing a Sony L series for the 744 and AAs for the 302 is probably the least expensive option, but not really where I want to end up as I do need some lightweight 12v power for some other stuff. If I changed or acquired a 12v camera, I wouldn't be torturing myself and the rest of you with this.

I might end up with the BDS distribution box over time, and the beauty there is I can plug whatever into it.
 
ggrantly said:
Hey Dave, with all due respect, and you deserve plenty, I don't think you read the first page of this thread which included my twisted reasoning to try and save a few bucks and still get a decent outcome. I really want to avoid another new battery system to go with the many I already have. And, I just don't want to throw down a grand for a part time audio bag power system which would be the case with a NP1 system. Granted, doing a Sony L series for the 744 and AAs for the 302 is probably the least expensive option, but not really where I want to end up as I do need some lightweight 12v power for some other stuff. If I changed or acquired a 12v camera, I wouldn't be torturing myself and the rest of you with this.

I might end up with the BDS distribution box over time, and the beauty there is I can plug whatever into it.
Click to expand...

I did read the first page. I'm just letting you know the most viable options right now. Other than those little sony camera batteries that the 744t uses I don't know if there are interchangeable batteries between audio and camera that are also very cost effective. I know a lot of sound guys use Aanton Bauer batteries instead of the NP-1 style batteries, but I don't know how much those are.

When I first started selling gear back when I used to work at Coffey Sound (now Trew Audio LA) I was stunned at how expensive getting a whole battery system set up was. It's not just one or two batteries. It's the whole power distribution and then the charger for the NP-1 batteries, and those suckers are NOT cheap. I totally feel ya, man. It's a tough one to swallow, but if you can maybe save up for and NP-1 style system with a BDS you'll find that you'll be using that for years and after just a few jobs the gear rental alone will have paid it off, assuming you charge rental for your gear.

There may be some DIY ways of doing this, but honestly I'm not smart enough to know how to do that correctly.
 
12VDC NP-1 options?

12VDC NP-1 options?

Thanks to all who have replied to this thread. Lots of great info here, and I appreciate your help.

Regarding the 12VDC limitation of the DR680:

I recently noticed a 12V NiMH 4000mAh "NP-25" (?) battery on Amazon, made by PowerSmart:
http://www.amazon.co...rSmart 12V NP-1

Here's a 12V NP-1 1.7Ah battery at B&H made by Bescor:
http://www.bhphotovi...Style_NiCd.html

Are NiMH and NiCd batteries practical for audio bag use? They are probably heavier, of less capacity and slower charging than the LiOn batteries, but they are (1) available in 12VDC and (2) less expensive than LiOn.
 
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"Regarding the 12VDC limitation of the DR680"
The manual states 9-14 volts. I have ran one on my 14.4V power system w/o issue. This would void the warranty though so sez Tascam.

The 1.7Ah 'smart' battery would likely only run it for about two hours (w/o Phantom Pwr). The 2.2Ah battery, a little longer.
 
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davefisk said:
I did read the first page. I'm just letting you know the most viable options right now. Other than those little sony camera batteries that the 744t uses I don't know if there are interchangeable batteries between audio and camera that are also very cost effective. I know a lot of sound guys use Aanton Bauer batteries instead of the NP-1 style batteries, but I don't know how much those are.

When I first started selling gear back when I used to work at Coffey Sound (now Trew Audio LA) I was stunned at how expensive getting a whole battery system set up was. It's not just one or two batteries. It's the whole power distribution and then the charger for the NP-1 batteries, and those suckers are NOT cheap. I totally feel ya, man. It's a tough one to swallow, but if you can maybe save up for and NP-1 style system with a BDS you'll find that you'll be using that for years and after just a few jobs the gear rental alone will have paid it off, assuming you charge rental for your gear.

There may be some DIY ways of doing this, but honestly I'm not smart enough to know how to do that correctly.
Click to expand...


Dave, this whole battery issue just chaps me to distraction. I have an entire medium camera bag full of different batteries and chargers to support different cams, monitors, slider, 12v lighting, and more. Realizing an NP1 or AB system would be the quick, sure and industry standard solution, I just can't buy into another single purpose battery system. The Canon LP-E6 batteries, which I already use, are pretty similar in form, volts and amps to the Sony L series. If you run two of either in series, you get around 14 volts which is in the range of most all 12v devices. Of course the LP-E6 won't fit the 744. In any event, I plan to pick a battery system I already own to feed my bag. I'll kludge something together. Thanks to all who responded with the range of options. Distribution aside, this is really about the battery power options; cheaper and maybe kluged a bit, or go with the $1000 total pro option.

Here is an idea for a new K-Tek product since K-Tek is now in the bag business. Develop a new paradigm for bag power and other 12V needs. The idea is to use a common 12v battery from industry, develop a secure dock, and provide a variety of output options such as hirose, xlr, and others. I first imagined something like this using a 12v bosch tool system battery. I have many of them and in a small power tool, they are pretty amazing and not very expensive. You can get China knockoffs if that's how you roll. Alex Dolgin commented on this idea that a tool battery like this might not be the best choice for this application. In any event, the concept would be to find a very common industrial battery, put it in a receiver with multiple output options. This would be appealing to anyone with location needs such as: cameras, monitors, small 12v lighting devices as well as audio bags. Expanding on the theme, receivers could be made for a double battery option. Package it with a Dolgin charger option and two starter batteries. There are some solutions out there, you can buy battery plates for most all common cam batteries, but none of them offer an integrated approach and use a common battery that you might find at home depot.

I'm tired now….
 
can't find the 9-14 volts spec in the DR680 manual

can't find the 9-14 volts spec in the DR680 manual

Rick - Yeah, I feared that the 1.7Ah battery may not be practical.

BTW, I searched the 680 manual PDF doc for 9-14 volts, and couldn't find it. I'd like to believe the 680 would be safe with the 14.4V battery, I have read reports by others that they have fryed their 680's doing this. Of course, other things could have contributed to this, but I'm a bit phobic about taking chances. Smoke at a shoot is best left to the special effects department.

Rick R said:
"Regarding the 12VDC limitation of the DR680"
The manual states 9-14 volts. I have ran one on my 14.4V power system w/o issue. This would void the warranty though so sez Tascam.

The 1.7Ah 'smart' battery would likely only run it for about two hours (w/o Phantom Pwr). The 2.2Ah battery, a little longer.
Click to expand...
 
Here is just a little info about "12v" batteries and the devices that charge them. Now there could be exceptions to this, but normally this is the way it works. Most every 12v battery is made up of 6 cells each having a fully charged state of 2.1v. Add 6 in series, and you have a fully charged battery which will read 12.6v in a static condition. A depleted 12v battery will have a static charge of about 12.1v. In simplistic terms, it takes somewhat more than 12v to charge a battery. Voltage is like the pressure reading in a water pipe, not enough pressure, and nothing much can happen. In a battery, in order to charge, you need enough voltage to overcome the internal resistance in the battery to allow a charge to happen. For most batteries, that will be between 13.6 and 15v. This will vary somewhat by battery type. Higher quality Chargers will vary the voltage in pulses in order to charge more quickly and completely. And different types of batteries require different algorithms for a good charging scheme; beware your li-ion batteries exploding. Now ymmv, but most devices labeled as 12v will tolerate the charge voltages used by most 12v charging systems. For example, when you plug something into your car lighter outlet while the engine is running, most cars will have a reading of around 14.6v. This was spoken in generalities, but is a good rule of thumb for most devices.
 
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