AVID vs everything else, and filming in nighttime streets

S

spanky

Member
hi, i have a problem and its pissing me off. i'm shooting some night shots on the street. i want a good tungsten orange glow to fill the image and people tell me its best doing colourising effects in-camera. i can never white-balance the damn thing effectively to get this orange glow, getting variable effects each time.

is it easier to just shoot the damn night scenes using preset WB on 3200k? and then colorize afterwards?

by the way my friend has an AVID suite - is this better than premiere, final cut etc? can I use AVID with Magic Bullet?

cheers

Spanky
 
Avid is definitely the way to go. Out of Premeire, FCP and Vegas, Avid is the most difficult to learn, yet there is a reason for it being the industry standard. You can simply tint the image in any of these programs for that orange look. And yes, Magic Bullet works with either program as well.
 
The only reason AVID is the industry standard is because at one point in time there was only AVID.... give it a few more years.....
Once upon a time FORD was THE car-maker... didn't they just lower their stock rating to junk-bond level?
 
Mr.Blonde--

Can you please let us know what the Avid products targeted at DV shooters provide over FCP?
I really have no idea.

One of the things I hear about is that Avid will take a jam-sync TC track that was recorded
onto an audio channel on a camera and interpret it as TC for dual system sync sound.

Which Avid product does this? This question often comes up here and you certainly seem
to be quite knowledgeable on the subject, so please let us know. Thanks.
 
To answer the original question... yes, the desired effect can be achieved with any of those softwares. If not native, there would most likely be a 3rd party plug-in which would be able to.

As for Avid being the industry standard...
I wouldn't necessarily consider Avid "THE" Industry standard anymore. Maybe "one" of the industry standards? Yes. Only reason why people would still use it because they dropeed $300,000+ into their systems 4+ years ago.

FCP I would definitely consider an industry standard level software now. I mean... ****... if Walter Murch and his assistants use FCP to edit high movies such as Cold Mountain... I would definitely call that an industry standard.

Then you have Avid ExAss.... I mean.. Express...
Everyone here does not have access $100,000.00 to a million dollar Avid Symphony or Media Composers. And you're comparing software that is less than $1000.00

Even Vegas and the new Premiere are starting to get accepted by PC users in the sub-$5,000 category of professional users. And for Mac users, the FCP deal. It's only a matter of time when a PC user will edit a movie with Vegas to get it's due credit.

Hard core and old school Avid users with a closed mind won't accept the fact that you can edit a AAA blockbuster quality movie with a $15,000.00 FCP setup now adays.
 
sounds like Sirius Doggy & Waverider don't like Avid too much. let me give you a few thoughts thisiswells.

-You can not use fcp on a PC, which is still what the vast majority of people have.
-At this point in time, you are more marketable in Hollywood as an Avid editor (this could change in time and maybe you have no plans of going to Hollywood)
-My sense is that both systems do pretty much all the same things, just depends on your preference (which usually depends on which system you learned on). I am no editor, so you can certainly find more informed opinions on this.

-Bear with me on a little background:
Before FCP, you couldn't get an Avid for less than tens of thousands of dollars. The early versions of FCP had nothing on the avid, but they lowered the cost of entry for a decent digital nle and a lot of students and industrial folks started using it. In fear of loosing the next generation of editors as FCP improved, Avid has been forced to counter by offering DV products. The competition has been very good for the consumer, but no need to get caught in the coke v. pepsi argument.

The main factor driving your choice should be what product better suits your needs. Here are a few of the questions that might inform your decision:
-If you plan on being an editor, where do you want to work and what do they use?
-What are your future needs and how will that effect your total cost (ie FCP can handle Component Video & HD at no additional software costs. But I have a feeling that if you're dealing in either of those mediums, you're going to have some cash flow to upgrade anyway).
-Do the extras make the package more cost effective. ie DVD Studio Pro is sweet, and you may end up buying it whether or not you get FCP.
 
Thanks, JY_Blue.

I'm really trying to debunk this thing I heard about being able to TC sync multiple miniDV cameras
that lack a "jam-sync" BNC connector on them ala TC DAT or TC HDD or DigiBeta, et. al.

Since TC is an audio signal it would be very reasonable to record signal to multiple cameras
from a simple, inexpensive TC generator (like Denecke SB-2a) by running audio cables to the
various cameras, then upon importing into an editing system, you could automatically sync
multiple non-jam-sync cameras for a multicamera live show. This would (I think) be of potential
interest to those using DVX100's for taping multicamera cable tv shows.

What I've heard is that Avid can do this, but I have never received confirmation on this from
anyone who actually uses an Avid system. If so, then I would be very interested in the system.
Being they are all tools, I am quite interested in learning any product that affords me work
opportunities, Avid, PC, whatever.. I actually do very little editing on my Mac. But, I'm incredibly
interested in editing multicam live events with TC sync from little MiniDV cams...

Thanks for your breakdown. FCP can handle analog component with a Blackmagic Decklink card.
The software is already setup for it. This, of course, does noone any good if edit houses are
hiring Avid editors, obviously.

Wells
 
are you talking about a live broadcast or live to tape? either way, you'd be dealing with a lot more than software issues.

here is a link to a music venue in LA that is using prosumer cameras and a computer server to broadcast concerts live over the internet. (http://www.kulakswoodshed.com/) I find it incredibly interesting but am not persistent enough to get an answer from the guy on how he does it all.
 
Live to tape - ISO each camera to each miniDV tape, then be able to convert the TC info
recorded to the audio channel 1 to a TC signal that the editor understand as being TC.

That would be incredibly useful for live events, concerts, etc. DigiBeta-level cameras
do have a Jam-Sync TC input, whereas these smaller cameras do not. Considering the
high level of use these days of using miniDV cameras for a lot of big-time shoots, it only
makes sense to have a logical workflow like this. I thought Avid had it down..

Thanks for the link.
 
I'm not saying I don't like Avid... (Well okay... I think Avid Express blows)

I'm just mainly saying, you can edit and output just as high quality of a movie on a properly setup $15,000 FCPHD machine to output the same quality images as a $300,000-$500,000 Avid Symphony.
 
I should note the process of recording a TC signal to a Non-TC DAT is common practice and it's a
simple matter to run a cable out of the audio channel from DAT into the TC-in on another device
and have TC readout.. You could do this with DV as well, just not over Firewire.. You would definitely
need to record over analog connections into an editor and not over Firewire. There needs to be a
way to do it over Firewire... My idea. anyways.
 
brian, don't think you'd need a nle at all. just hardware. and if you can figure out a possible solution, let me know.
 
JY_Blue said:
sounds like Sirius Doggy & Waverider don't like Avid too much. let me give you a few thoughts thisiswells.
Click to expand...

I actually don't have anything against AVID. Just the people who think that if you use anything else you are unable to produce anything "industry" quality.
My first experience editing was on a $90k AVID system that was only capable of storing 1 hour of VHS quality video. And we thought it was awesome....:grin: It was an offline system, we'd edit VHS quality then output an EDL and bring that into our betaSP/1" suite and load the EDL into I beleive a Sony BVE9000 editor to online it. It's obviously come a long way in the past 10-15 years....

I personally edit now on a PremierePro system with a terabyte of storage on a system I built that cost around $5k.
If I wasn't into building computers I'd probably be using a Mac G5 using FCP but I prefer PC's.
Just go with whatever you are comfortable with.
It's not what you edit on, it's what you edit.
 
My reasoning for steering people in the Avid direction is because not only is Avid multi-platform, pc/mac, but it is also "industry standard." By this I mean most editing houses in Hollywood run Avids, meaning if you're considering doing real work and you know your way around Avid, you're ready to go. Avid is a great company, they offer the most professional line of film/audio editing products available. I personally edit with Avid Xpress HD, then shoot it off to someone for work in After Effects, and then onto Avid/Digidesign Pro Tools for audio. I also edit with Premiere Pro at home for small projects, as well as Final Cut at school for various other small projects. As far as the debate between Final Cut and Premiere go, they're truly the same program, only with very minor differences. The thing that I think is crap about Premiere as well as Final Cut is the fact that they are pc or mac exclusive. Whereas Avid offers cross compatiblility, reliability, affordability, oh and it currently edits DVCPRO HD, and once again, if you're looking to make it into hollywood it is THE program to know.
 
The antagonist wells, the answer to your question I do not have. Not an audio guy myself, why don't you google it pal.
 
Avid has no product that sells for $300K to $K, and it never has. Thus is the type of misinformation that non avid users like to spread to make their own buying decision a better choice. the top of the line Avid system is a turnkey (CPU, monitors, etc) with storage that sells for $140k. It is the DS Nitris that is a real time, dual stream 10 bit uncompressed HD system.

I think people should buy the system that fits their needs without feeling the need to put down other systems. It it works for you, great!

As far as industry standard, yes, there are several feature films that use FCP such as Cold Mountain, Ladykillers, etc. But there are as many films using Lightworks as there are FCP. Which is about 4-6 studio films per year each. Out of the 350 to 400 films a year made, it has a ways to go to be called a "standard." I am saying this based on the numbers - basic statistics.

The reason Avid is used so much in feature films is its feature set, the ability to track and modify KeyKode and ink number in context to editorial, multiple timecodes at all frame rates, AutoSync, AutoSequence, ability to actually log a pulldown relationship other than "A", etc. The list goes on an on. At last years Academy Award editor's panel, an editor mentioned that he would consider editing his next feature on FCP but would need to add 4-6 assistants. The cost of a system goes beyond what the cost of hardware and software but how it affects the entire post process and its ability to integrate into a workflow. Later versions deal with file based workflows such as VFX, DPX, LUT's, UNC paths, etc. All metadata critical to the tracking and conform of film, digital and file based convergence.

I think FCP is a capable system whose feature set is growing all the time, just like every other manufacturer's systems.

As far as the double system audio workflow and Avid specific "how to", please post to the Avid forum and I will answer it there.

Michael
 
A non linear system is a non linear system. Its all about what you want. AVID is no better than any other system. AVID simply was the first to infiltrate the professional world so it became the Kleenex of editing systems. I edit on three systems including AVID for broadcast and it matters little as to which system I use. They all do the same thing.
 
I postulated my question about LTC TC sync on the Avid forum and MichaelP replied promptly.
I encourage anyone curious to know the details to visit the Avid forum on DVXUser.

Thanks.
 
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