AVC-Ultra - revamped

Barry_Green

Moderator
Hey, I haven't seen much talk of this on the boards, but apparently Panasonic has revamped and launched their strategy for AVC-Ultra. Previously we had thought it was going to be a new high-end codec, like 400mbps or something. Instead, it apparently turns out to be a family of codecs, or an umbrella name for their AVC codecs, based on a slideshow I saw from their press conference at IBC.

Interesting thing to me is that they're introducing Long-GoP version to the AVC-Ultra line -- which is 10-bit and 4:2:2 at low bandwidth. They say that it'll be 25 to 50 megabits. I don't know how 25 megabits would look, but 50 megabits of AVC at 10-bits and 4:2:2 should look pretty darn fantastic, and should meet all broadcaster requirements. I've been badgering them for a while for this -- I had previously referred to it as "AVCPRO" but apparently they're naming it AVC Long-G. Whatever -- just so long as it lets us use our products for all clients with no additional cost for external recorders (and it's 10-bit!) they could name it "Slartibartfast" as far as I care! :)

As for AVC-Intra, it's getting an enhancement to add support for 1080/50p and 1080/60p.

Then there's a new version of AVC-Intra, which is 4:4:4 with 12-bit recording, and 1080p up to 4K resolution. That, to me, was where the confusion was -- whether AVC-Ultra was a codec, which is what we thought their 4k/12-bit/etc new codec was gonna be, but apparently that new codec will be a different profile of AVC-Intra (implying, obviously, that it will be a true intraframe codec). And this new version of AVC-Intra, and the existing version of AVC-Intra, and the enhanced 60p version of AVC-Intra, and the new AVC Long-GoP codec, will all collectively be referred to as AVC-Ultra.

There's also some slides about enhanced metadata management, including stuff like automatic face recognition (how awesome would that be -- if you're looking for a clip you shot of a particular actor, you search the metadata by that actor's name, and it knows how to recognize her/his face? Wild. I don't know if that's what it truly is, but that's my guess). Also the metadata will store GPS data, have voice recognition, and (at last!) lens metadata too.

Now, none of this is going to be available any time soon, probably a year or two away before the first products start incorporating these ideas; this slideshow they presented at IBC was more of like a roadmap of where they're headed. But it looks like some fun stuff!
 
Very cool stuff. It's not fair that Canon gets tons of press for their 4:2:2 50mb codec, when a 50mb 4:2:2 AVC codec would in fact be far superior. Go Panasonic!
 
Yes, very cool stuff.

Now Panasonic, please unlink these codecs from P2 and license them to 3rd parties.
 
I really like where Panasonic is going with these professional codecs. There are some great external recorders out there, but I prefer not to bother if I don't have to, so seeing camera lines that will utilize these natively will be great to see.
 
Is P2 even fast enough for 4:4:4 12 bit 4k footage?! Or does P2 get faster as the SD cards inside it get faster? Or is this format likely to be somewhat compressed in comparison to the new sony SR 4k plans or something like the ikonoskop?
 
Is P2 even fast enough for 4:4:4 12 bit 4k footage?! Or does P2 get faster as the SD cards inside it get faster? Or is this format likely to be somewhat compressed in comparison to the new sony SR 4k plans or something like the ikonoskop?

P2 hasn't used SD card innards for some time.
 
Is P2 even fast enough for 4:4:4 12 bit 4k footage?!
It's 1.2 gigabytes per second. It's fast enough for totally uncompressed HD. RedCode Raw is, at its absolute maximum, 336 megabits per second. P2 could technically support up to four streams of RedCode RAW simultaneously.

So, yeah, it's fast enough. :thumbsup:

Or does P2 get faster as the SD cards inside it get faster?
There are no SD cards inside it. It's all core memory, not SD cards. The SD card thing was how the very first original cards were designed, but they haven't had SD cards in them since the "R" series came out.

Or is this format likely to be somewhat compressed in comparison to the new sony SR 4k plans or something like the ikonoskop?
Well, all AVC family products are compressed, I mean, AVC = compression. AVC = Advanced Video Coding.
 
Panasonic still have lots of P2 cameras still being produced including the new HPX250 coming out. P2 is not going away.

of course not, but for a new cam, If there is only P2 slot and no other option.... It's a pity
 
oh cool,

thanks for the info!

In that case, my vote goes towards totally uncompressed HD option for panasonic cameras! and indeed all other makes of cameras.

25mbps.... sigh
surely storage space is cheap enough to have some wanton data rates.
Mind you, this would just give the P2 user more options right? or would they use this format for non-P2 cameras too?

I find it strange that they still haven't released a smaller, lower cost, single slot P2 camera. Ever since the first HVX, I thought such a camera was inevitable, but apparently I continue to be wrong.
 
oh cool,

thanks for the info!

In that case, my vote goes towards totally uncompressed HD option for panasonic cameras! and indeed all other makes of cameras.

25mbps.... sigh
surely storage space is cheap enough to have some wanton data rates.
Mind you, this would just give the P2 user more options right? or would they use this format for non-P2 cameras too?

I find it strange that they still haven't released a smaller, lower cost, single slot P2 camera. Ever since the first HVX, I thought such a camera was inevitable, but apparently I continue to be wrong.
from their presentation its 25-50mbps so theres hope
 
I find it strange that they still haven't released a smaller, lower cost, single slot P2 camera. Ever since the first HVX, I thought such a camera was inevitable, but apparently I continue to be wrong.
The HPX170 is all the way down to $3995 MSRP, $3395 street price. That's really cheap, almost half the price of what the HVX was when it first came out, and the HPX170 is a noticeably better camera.
 
The HPX170 is all the way down to $3995 MSRP, $3395 street price. That's really cheap, almost half the price of what the HVX was when it first came out, and the HPX170 is a noticeably better camera.

I've never used one of those, but the HVX is just too big. The EX1 was a lot better I found, even though it's still huge. The HPX looks to be smaller than both of those... I've heard people say the shoulder mount camera style is the best, but on the one occasion I used one, it was probably the worst footage I've ever taken!

I like the look of the HMC40 form factor, but I'd probably rather just shoot with the GH1.
I need a camera I can carry in a bag on the bus.
I'm waiting to see how the GH3 handles the 25fps thing, I'm also hoping they return the res to 12mp and retain the extended tele mode. That would give you 1920 x 1080 at a very close size to 2/3" which to me, seems like the most versatile ship size and you can use lots of nice old 16mm lenses (which I personally prefer to use than modern lenses).

The ikonoskop looks to be almost perfect, only failing by being too expensive and not having much battery life.

Every year another host of not-quite perfect cameras out, I'm still hesitant to spend my non-existent budget on something more substantial.

it'd be nice to see a P2 slot on a GH camera ;)
 
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