Audio Technica At-897

[miamivideo]

Hi
I need help getting a good audio out of this mic, It seems that I have to put the mic very close to the actors to get a decent audio, otherwise It is very low. I have it mounted in a boom pole connected to my cam a Canon xh-a1. I heard good reviews about this microphone before I bought it, maybe I don't know how to use it propertly, Help please.
Thanks

 

[gco]

phantom power on?

 

[miamivideo]

phantom power on?

It has a battery

 

[John Willett]

1) Try a new battery (and make sure it is the correct way round).

2) Cable? It's a balanced mic. (pin 2 hot, pin 3 cold, pin 1 screen) and should be connected to a similar XLR at the other end. If you unbalance the mic. by shorting out pins 1 & 3 to screen and only useinf pin 2 then the output will be lower. In this case it's best to use a Beech Box (or similar) with the camera.

3) Check the camera settings - gain, record level, etc.

I hope this helps.

 

[miamivideo]

1) Try a new battery (and make sure it is the correct way round).

2) Cable? It's a balanced mic. (pin 2 hot, pin 3 cold, pin 1 screen) and should be connected to a similar XLR at the other end. If you unbalance the mic. by shorting out pins 1 & 3 to screen and only useinf pin 2 then the output will be lower. In this case it's best to use a Beech Box (or similar) with the camera.

3) Check the camera settings - gain, record level, etc.

I hope this helps.

I think I'm doing ok with the xrl cable, the camera settings I don't know.

 

[Steve House]

Hi
I need help getting a good audio out of this mic, It seems that I have to put the mic very close to the actors to get a decent audio, otherwise It is very low. I have it mounted in a boom pole connected to my cam a Canon xh-a1. I heard good reviews about this microphone before I bought it, maybe I don't know how to use it propertly, Help please.
Thanks

It's a common misperception that shotgun mics somehow reach out and magnify distant sounds the way a telephoto lens magnifys a distant image. They don't - the laws of physics dictate that such a device simply can't exist. Shotgun mics are no more sensitive to distant sounds than any other mic - they simply are much less sensitive to surrounding sounds than they are to sounds coming from precisely where they're aimed, and that reduced sensitivity to interfering sounds sometimes let's you turn up the gain a bit. All mics, even shotguns, are subject to the inverse square law - double the distance and you reduce the sound level by a factor of 4. As such they need to be fairly close to the source - short 'guns like the 897 should typically be used 2 to 3 feet from the subject, you might get away with a few inches more in a very quiet location. The rule of thumb for dialog is that the subject should be able to reach out and touch the mic without straining. Another factor is the cone of maximum sensivity is fairly narrow and a 'gun needs to be precisely aimed right at the subject's mouth and upper chest, hard to do when it's mounted so it moves with the camera. We're talking about keeping it pointed exactly in the centre of a circle that's maybe 8 inches in diameter throughout all the action. One way to see if your mount is actually performing up to par is to tape a small flashlight, or even better a laser pointer, carefully aligned along the mic's axis and see where its beam is falling as you shoot some tests - I'd be willing to bet it's not going to fall anywhere near centered on the subject's mouth.

If you have a mixer with headphone output or a headphone amp with a mic level input, try putting on a set of cans and exploring with the mic while someone recites some dialog, get a feel for what happens to the sound as you vary the distance to the subject and move the aim point by a few degrees one way or the other. I think you'll be surprised how much difference you'll discover

 

[John Willett]

It's a common misperception that shotgun mics somehow reach out and magnify distant sounds the way a telephoto lens magnifys a distant image. They don't - the laws of physics dictate that such a device simply can't exist. Shotgun mics are no more sensitive to distant sounds than any other mic - they simply are much less sensitive to surrounding sounds than they are to sounds coming from precisely where they're aimed. All mics, even shotguns, need to be fairly close to the source - short 'guns like the 897 should typically be used 2 to 3 feet from the subject, you might get away with a few inches more in a very quiet location. The rule of thumb for dialog is that the subject should be able to reach out and touch the mic without straining. Another factor is the cone of maximum sensivity is fairly narrow and a 'gun needs to be precisely aimed right at the subject's mouth and upper chest, hard to do when it's mounted so it moves with the camera. We're talking about keeping it pointed exactly in the centre of a circle that's maybe 8 inches in diameter throughout all the action. One way to see if your mount is actually performing up to par is to tape a small flashlight, or even better a laser pointer, carefully aligned along the mic's axis and see where its beam is falling as you shoot some tests - I'd be willing to bet it's not going to fall anywhere near centered on the subject's mouth.

This is correct.

If an omni mic. is 1 meter away from the sound source - to pick up the same sound a cardioid mic. would be 1.7 meters away and a short gun mic. 2.2 metres away.

So a gun mic can be placed about twice as far away as an omni.

And - yes - this surprised me too the first time I found out.

 

[Steve House]

This is correct.

If an omni mic. is 1 meter away from the sound source - to pick up the same sound a cardioid mic. would be 1.7 meters away and a short gun mic. 2.2 metres away.

So a gun mic can be placed about twice as far away as an omni.

And - yes - this surprised me too the first time I found out.

You are correct from a practical standpoint - but the sensitivity only appears to be greater because the reduced pickup of ambient sounds with the more directional mics lets you compensate somewhat for the greater distance by increasing the system gain. Our readers should also be careful to note that the distances you cite are chosen for purpose of clarity in comparison against a standard baseline measurement but all are much farther away from the source than you'd actually use any of those mics when recording normal speech. I think of omnis typically being used 4 to 10 inches or so away, cardioids from about 8 out to the mid 'teens, hypers range from around the mid 'teens out to about 24 inches, short guns between 2 and 4 feet, and long guns from 3 to maybe 8 feet.

Do I recognize your name from Sound on Sound? <g>

 

[John Willett]

You are correct from a practical standpoint - but the sensitivity only appears to be greater because the reduced pickup of ambient sounds with the more directional mics lets you compensate somewhat for the greater distance by increasing the system gain. Our readers should also be careful to note that the distances you cite are chosen for purpose of clarity in comparison against a standard baseline measurement but all are much farther away from the source than you'd actually use any of those mics when recording normal speech. I think of omnis typically being used 4 to 10 inches or so away, cardioids from about 8 out to the mid 'teens, hypers range from around the mid 'teens out to about 24 inches, short guns between 2 and 4 feet, and long guns from 3 to maybe 8 feet.

I agree (but I *do* use omnis at 2 metres or more very often).

But the table is useful to show people that the gun has to be closer than you think.

Do I recognize your name from Sound on Sound? <g>

Yes, but I have over 10,000 posts there.

 

[Steve House]

I agree (but I *do* use omnis at 2 metres or more very often).

But the table is useful to show people that the gun has to be closer than you think.

Absolutely! But "2 metres or more" with an omni for normal spoken dialog, a podium speech, etc? Mic'ing instruments or an orchestra, choral groups, operatic solo or other powerful vocals, or audience atmos at a concert, certainly - but that seems more than a bit far for normal everyday speech when you're looking for the clarity and presence generally associated with theatrical films or broadcast television dialog.

 

[miamivideo]

It's a common misperception that shotgun mics somehow reach out and magnify distant sounds the way a telephoto lens magnifys a distant image. They don't - the laws of physics dictate that such a device simply can't exist. Shotgun mics are no more sensitive to distant sounds than any other mic - they simply are much less sensitive to surrounding sounds than they are to sounds coming from precisely where they're aimed, and that reduced sensitivity to interfering sounds sometimes let's you turn up the gain a bit. All mics, even shotguns, are subject to the inverse square law - double the distance and you reduce the sound level by a factor of 4. As such they need to be fairly close to the source - short 'guns like the 897 should typically be used 2 to 3 feet from the subject, you might get away with a few inches more in a very quiet location. The rule of thumb for dialog is that the subject should be able to reach out and touch the mic without straining. Another factor is the cone of maximum sensivity is fairly narrow and a 'gun needs to be precisely aimed right at the subject's mouth and upper chest, hard to do when it's mounted so it moves with the camera. We're talking about keeping it pointed exactly in the centre of a circle that's maybe 8 inches in diameter throughout all the action. One way to see if your mount is actually performing up to par is to tape a small flashlight, or even better a laser pointer, carefully aligned along the mic's axis and see where its beam is falling as you shoot some tests - I'd be willing to bet it's not going to fall anywhere near centered on the subject's mouth.

If you have a mixer with headphone output or a headphone amp with a mic level input, try putting on a set of cans and exploring with the mic while someone recites some dialog, get a feel for what happens to the sound as you vary the distance to the subject and move the aim point by a few degrees one way or the other. I think you'll be surprised how much difference you'll discover

Thanks for your information.