Audio Sync Advice Needed!

R

rnoori

New member
Hello all,

A completely noob question here. I just finished my first directorial project with audio being recorded separately and I'm getting ready to edit in Final Cut Pro. I have a set of offline files on one harddrive to do the editing on, the RAW files on another harddrive, and then the WAV audio files on yet another harddrive. The idea is to do the editing on the offline files, spit out an EDL, do a digital conform, and then colour the footage. My questions are:

- How do I sync the sound to the offline footage? Do I just import all the offline video files, the WAV files, and associate the corresponding clips to eachother, matching the slate sound and visuals?
- The slate used was an electronic one. How does the timecode on the slate help me with the syncing process?
- The offline clips have audio, from an in-camera mic. Should I keep those as guide? Or should I get rid of them before matching the audio files with each clip?

Any other tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated. Again, thank you for helping a noob on his first sync sound editing adventure.

Ray
 
rnoori said:
Hello all,

A completely noob question here. I just finished my first directorial project with audio being recorded separately and I'm getting ready to edit in Final Cut Pro. I have a set of offline files on one harddrive to do the editing on, the RAW files on another harddrive, and then the WAV audio files on yet another harddrive. The idea is to do the editing on the offline files, spit out an EDL, do a digital conform, and then colour the footage. My questions are:

- How do I sync the sound to the offline footage? Do I just import all the offline video files, the WAV files, and associate the corresponding clips to eachother, matching the slate sound and visuals?
- The slate used was an electronic one. How does the timecode on the slate help me with the syncing process?
- The offline clips have audio, from an in-camera mic. Should I keep those as guide? Or should I get rid of them before matching the audio files with each clip?

Any other tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated. Again, thank you for helping a noob on his first sync sound editing adventure.

Ray
Click to expand...
Pluraleyes does wonders with FCP
 
The work flow varies based on, well the work flow.

You do want to sync the raw footage to the sound because once you edit it can be a nightmare to do.

Based on your question I will make some assumptions - you can correct me if I'm off.

You directed and your new to it.
You are going to be the picture editor, and you new to that also.
And your not planning on any sound post, ie your going to do it all.

Assuming the above. Sync the raw audio files and if you can get Pluraleyes use that. Other wise you have to do it visually and (in FCP) you can only get so close to dead on. Pluraleyes from all accounts gets around this and gets you dead on. The difference is probably not significant for you but...

Lock all the new clips together so all of the audio is married to the video (or you will loose sync). and then edit away. Once you are done you can mute the onboard audio (you can mute it sooner but don't get rid of it, it's your "gold standard" for sync).

RE: TC

THere is a way to use it to sync clips IF all your boxes were TC capable and IF they were all jammed to the same clock and IF they were all set to the same time base. With out knowing any of those IF's it's not really possible to know if it's useful or just a pretty face.

I would suspect that it's just a pretty face.
 
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Thank you so much Noiz2. First, your assumptions:

You are correct, I did direct the feature and it is my first. I have only directed shorts before, none with sync sound.
I am going to be the primary editor on the picture, yes. I have edited before, but only with onboard audio.
I will be doing the sound post as well, yes.

The slate used during the production was a Denecke TS-3EL Timecode Slate, and it should have been on the same clock as the RED ONE. So, I did try to sync the audio and video clips using the timecode, but I ran into an issue. Here's the gist of what I did:

I drag everything into the Final Cut Pro explorer window, find the corresponding audio and video clips, select them, and choose Modify->Merge Clips..., and choose Timecode in the pop-up where it asks merge using what. The problem is, the merged clip isn't really synced. The video is at the beginning of the clip (with the camera audio track), there's a 50 minute gap, and then the audio clip. It's consistent for all the audio and video. Am I doing something wrong? Can I not use timecode to merge the clips? I also tried choosing Aux Timecode 1 and Aux Timecode 2 in the pop-up after choosing Merge Clips..., but the net result is the same. Any help would be hugely appreciated.

I just looked up PluralEyes and will be downloading it in a minute, hopefully it will do the trick.

Ray
 
rnoori said:
The slate used during the production was a Denecke TS-3EL Timecode Slate, and it should have been on the same clock as the RED ONE.

Ray
Click to expand...

No, your slate timecode should not match the camera's. It should match the AUDIO RECORDERS timecode.
You didn't mention if you used a time code audio recorder or not.

Think about it, if the camera is laying down a particular time code, why would you ALSO have to see the camera's time code on a slate?
(you don't)

Confirm to us you used a time code audio recorder, what frame rates, was the slate jammed to camera? or audio?
Did camera, audio, slate all have the same time code? running at the same rate?

Or were you using a slate as the master time code clock?
Jamming the camera, and then plugging the slate into your recorder to send time code to audio?
 
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Just as a heads up when it comes to timecode:

I've helped trouble shoot timecode issues on big budget features and tv shows, and the only way to make sure you have everything playing nicely together is to use a master timecode generator (denecke makes one), and then jam everything from that..the camera, the slate, the audio recorder. Everything should be running the same timecode. It is absolutely crucial to make sure everything is set up at the same frame rate, because some devices can cross jam frame rates, and it's easy to miss something being at the wrong frame rate. Yes, you can jam the slate from the camera, and then the audio recorder from the camera, or any combination of that, but I really don't like doing that, as I've seen problems pop up. It's really really helpful to have a master timecode generator that everything is jammed from. I approached timecode this way on every project I've done production sound on, and I've never had a problem. It's especially helpful on multicam shoots. When I was recording mocap dialogue on the first "Uncharted" videogame, I was giving timecode to the mocap rig, 5 video decks, and my Deva, all of them jammed from a master timecode generator. Naughty Dog imported the video from the reference video on the actors into FCP, and my audio synced (sunk?) up perfectly. Then, we used that same timecode on the mocap footage for the animators and...blammo! everything dropped in perfectly. Also important to note: if you power a device down...the camera, audio recorder, slate...you must re-jam them. I don't care about what anyone says about not having to do it. Just to it to cover your rear end. After meal break, re-jam again. The internal clocks on high-end devices are good, but I've seen a frame or two of drift over about 8 hours if all the machines are left running in free-run mode. If you can hard line time code to everything, and run in continuous jam mode, even better.

If you are having offset issues like you are having, something wasn't jammed properly, or not at all. I've never seen that big of an offset due to an incorrect frame rate.
 
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So it turns out I was mis-informed. Both Dave and Rippie were correct in their suspicion that the camera and the audio recorder were not on the same timecode, we didn't have a master timecode generator. so what I'm doing right now is, I poin-point the clapping frame, read the timecode, use Modify->Timecode... to add that value as an aux timecode for the video master clips, THEN use Merge Clips... based on the Aux Timecode. It's a bit of a pain, but it works. And the result is an in-sync master clip, which is slightly more preferable to a synced sequence, which is what PluralEyes would give you. PluralEyes, by the way, is nothing short of magical. Great program.

So before I go on syncing my entire footage using the aux timecode and Merge Clips..., does that workflow seem correct to people with more experience? And once I have a master clip that is synced, can I remove the original audio and video clips from the clips browser?
 
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