Audio Postproduction

J.D.

J.D.

Active member
Hello All,
What program do you suggest for audio editing and why?
ProTools?, Soundtrack Pro? Acid? Logic?

I am considering buying ProTools, and learning it.

Also what self paced training tools do you suggest?

thanks
 
I use Pro Tools. It's the industry standard here in Hollywood. Nuendo is also very nice, and a really good bang for the buck. A co-worker of mine just checked out the latest version, and he said it's really going to give Digidesign a run for their money.

Learning one of these programs on your own is one thing, but I would recommend you take some classes, or get an internship somewhere that does what you want to do. Then you will learn the context of whatever program you use. THAT will make you valuable.

-Dave
 
If you're doing projects strictly for yourself and not planning on becoming a pro sound guy, some people feel Sony Vegas, with all the plug ins, provides an extremely powerful post audio editor.
 
brianluce said:
If you're doing projects strictly for yourself and not planning on becoming a pro sound guy, some people feel Sony Vegas, with all the plug ins, provides an extremely powerful post audio editor.
Click to expand...


I've never used that, but I've been hearing Vegas mentioned more and more frequently these days. I use Sound Forge for mastering game dialogue. It's really great for that, but I wouldn't use it for full on editing.

If I were in J.D.'s situation, I would be tempted to look at something OTHER than Pro Tools. Number one, the TDM system is cost prohibitive for someone in his situation...and number two, I doubt there's much of an "industry standard" where he is located.

-Dave
 
Dave_Fisk said:
I've never used that, but I've been hearing Vegas mentioned more and more frequently these days. I use Sound Forge for mastering game dialogue. It's really great for that, but I wouldn't use it for full on editing.

If I were in J.D.'s situation, I would be tempted to look at something OTHER than Pro Tools. Number one, the TDM system is cost prohibitive for someone in his situation...and number two, I doubt there's much of an "industry standard" where he is located.

-Dave
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I spent some time with our sound guy last night. He was doing post with vegas. there are some incredible audio plugins for vegas--he feels it's almost as good as protools and prefers it to protools if he's on a pc. He said protools is engineered for macs.

Does sound forge do multi layers?
 
adobe auditon 1.5 on its own was a good solid program but with the update to 2.0 it is even better as it now supports the vst plug-ins so you can use just about any plug-in out there.

plus if you use premiere pro the workflow between premiere pro and audition is almost invisibile. i can't say enough about the workflow between premiere pro 2.0/audition 2.0 etc.

so as far as bang for the buck i would have to say audition 2.0 especially if you have the premiere pro program for editing.

also, as always with adobe products, if you are a student or a teacher you can get the educational copy of the premiere/after effects/audition bundle at a huge discount.

there are also some great books out there on audition 2.0 and more are coming out shortly.

i want to try pro tools but where you can buy just the program? it seems to only come bundled with really expensive hardware solutions.

matthew
 
J.D. said:
What program do you suggest for audio editing and why?
Click to expand...
First question I have for you is what are you doing your picture editing in? This may influence your choice of audio tools.

First thing is the people I know who use Vegas love it like nothing else I've ever seen. Since it started out as an audio editing application and later they added video, it's got superior audio editing capabilities that beat the pants off Avid and Final Cut Pro as far as integrated video/audio editing tools go.

That said, I personally do as much of the dialog, effects, and music editing as I can in Final Cut Pro (since that's what I do picture editing with) and you can get far pushing the limits of the tool and using it's subframe audio editing capabilties and then for the finishing touches and audio sweetening and final mix I use MOTU's Digital Performer ("DP").

While DP started out as a MIDI sequencer and music composition tool, over the years they've added audio editing and mix to picture capabilities so now it's a complete and comprehensive sequencing, editing, mixing, and mastering tool. And unlike ProTools, it's very affordable and there is no added software needed for doing mix-to-picture with DP. DP comes with a good set of plug-ins and most every major plug-in out there comes in a version that works with DP since it is widely used in music composition and mixing. Since Pro Tools is about selling you hardware, they require hardware to do things, DP, on the other hand, can run very well as a software-only system. Even though MOTU is famous for their amazing audio interfaces, they don't lock you into buying hardware the way ProTools does. I use DP with a non-MOTU audio interface.

I've used DP now to mix two films and edit over a dozen audio podcasts, and I'm very pleased with the flexibility and cost-effectiveness of the solution. Now it took me a while to get used to it, the learning curve is steep with DP, had I not had the guidance of a professional sound mixer who is a DP wiz and the help of a friend who's a musician who uses DP in his work, I might have given up. There are some good books that help, and their documentation and technical support are best-in-class. DP has been around for a while and it has a loyal following, it's only down-sides really are that it's not as widely used as Pro Tools (for audio editing) and it's Mac only (I don't mid that, as I edit with Final Cut Pro). If your goal is to become a sound pro, then knowing Pro Tools is a critical "check off" item. On the other hand, I have no aspirations to become a sound pro, I do sound on my own films and projecs, and DP gives me what I need in terms of audio editing, mix-to-picture, etc.

Now, if I was a PC user, I'd be considering Vegas very seriously...
 
I am editing in FCP. I heven't done much audio editing with the soundtrack app, only using it for making music loops. I was just wanting to know what would be the best app for mix to pic.
thanks for all your input.

I think I should dive into soundtrack more and checkout DP

JD
 
matthewd5 said:
i want to try pro tools but where you can buy just the program? it seems to only come bundled with really expensive hardware solutions.

matthew
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I too would like to know this, anybody know?
 
If you have a m-audio soundcard or device you can download the demo from m-audio for the M-powered version of Protools 7.0. Vegas is a powerful tool and I use both soundforge and Wavelab for mastering tracks. But Soundforge is only primarily used for 2 channels at a time. Just to keep things straight..Protools, Nuendo, Logic, Samplitude, Digital Performer, Audigy (formally Cool Edit Pro), Cubase as well as Vegas are Sequencer programs for laying down multiple tracks.. And Soundforge, Wavelab are Mastering/Editing programs. Many people use Ableton 5, Fruityloops, Acid and Reason to lay down music tracks and also taking advantage of it rewire capablities with sequencer programs as the master. Now if you use mac.. a lot of people use Logic, DPand Protools and but video editing purposes Soundtrack pro should be suffice but it is limited compared to the others.
 
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J.D. said:
I am editing in FCP [...] think I should dive into soundtrack more [...]
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No harm in messing around with Soundtrack Pro (which supports both audio editing and multi-track mixing to picture), the interface is pretty intuitive and if you've used it already for doing loops, you'll feel right at home. It's a good program for getting started, and if it meets your needs for editing and mixing, cool, otherwise, you can look to other programs...
 
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smithy said:
[...] Just to keep things straight..Protools, Nuendo, Logic, Samplitude, Digital Performer, Audigy (formally Cool Edit Pro), Cubase as well as Vegas are Sequencer programs for laying down multiple tracks... [...]
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What's confusing about Digital Performer is that it's a "swiss-army" kind of application (they have kept adding new capabilities over the years), in it's curent incarnation it can be used for sequencing, laying down multiple tracks, mixing to picture, editing, mastering, you name it, it can do almost any audio postproduction task (though some things better than others, each program out there has areas in which they shine better than others, which explains why there are so many good audio programs on the market with viable user communities).
 
I also do all my editing in FCP and so do my sound design in Soundtrack Pro. When we bought the latest upgrade it was all bundled, so it was the best deal for us.

So I used Soundtrack for the entire sound edit on my HeroFest entry, and I loved it. It gets pretty deep. I've never used any of the other programs, but I say if you have Soundtrack Pro, start diving in.

This book may also help (i'm ordering it soon):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/03...ref=sr_1_4/002-4051940-5792048?_encoding=UTF8
 
Protools is the way you want to go.

I have the ProTools HD192 at work, and an older 24/888 system at home.
I've shot video, exported the audio tracks to Protools and used plugins and audio tools you don't get in other programs (i.e.: "ducking" with a compressor). I've then broght the audio back into FCP and re-locked it to picture. Works great.

Digital Performer is a song/music production program which I believe is more oriented to midi and music origination. That's fine if that's where you are. If you are trying to clean up audio and refine your mix and just add production music- I still say Protools.

Jeff :kali:
 
I comes down to what your specific needs are, what you can afford financially and time spent learning the program.

Personally, I have used Steinberg's Nuendo since it's inception. For me, it works great. Whether it's Midi applications, live recording, ADR, composing for film, sound design, sound editing and so forth, Nuendo is a great all around program used by some of the top pro's in the business.

There have been some very good recommendations here. Good luck on your final
decision.

Mark Dalzell / AudioScapes
Las Vegas, NV
http://www.markdalzell.com
 
JPatnaude said:
[...] Digital Performer is a song/music production program which I believe is more oriented to midi and music origination. That's fine if that's where you are [...]
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This is a common misconception about Digital Performer. It can be used for every step of audio editing, spotting, mixing, cleanup, etc. for a video project and has excellent mix-to-picture capability, all built in for one low price, nothing extra to buy, most of the plug-ins and effects you'll ever need come included with the package. Some people use it with an external audio editor if they have specialized needs. I've never used the midi and music origination features in Digital Performer, I've only used it for audio editing, spotting, adding pre-recorded music tracks, mixing-to-picture, etc. Some of us like travelling down the road less travelled for one reason or another, for me it was the ability to put together a total mix-to-picture solution at a lower price, simple as that. I would never argue the point, however, if you want versatile skills you can take with you as a freelance audio editor, ProTools is the 10,000 Lb. Gorilla in the business that everyone needs to know or say they work with.
 
can someone point me at a matrix or some other sort of chart that shows what pro tools goes with what hardware etc?

maybe there is an article reprint availble in pdf that shows this?

i'd love to try it out as i'm getting deeper and deeper into sound but its so damn confusing.

i've picked up MIX and a few other magazines that mention protools a LOT but they never explain how to get into it.

the biggest question i have is v7.0 of protools the same with different hardware?

i mean other than the drivers is v7 v7 or are there versions of the version?

like once you get pro tools v7 with whatever hardware can you just buy a pro tools v7 book or is it harder than that?

i think they would sell a lot more copies or hardware whatever if it was a little less confusing.

that said i'm pretty damn happy with the way audition has progress from version 1.5 to v2

matthew
 
Thanks again for all the input.
I want to pose my question in another form.
I need to do a final mix on my feature length project,( 80+min) and I have a choice. To pay a pro that I know that does this for major cable networks, $1,500. Or do I do I buy the software. learn it and do it myself.
Is it realistic to learn to do this? Just thinking about how many years I have been writing, editing and directing, and I still have lots to learn.
So maybe I'm better off going with a pro
Still, I appreciate any feedback

JD
 
J.D. said:
Thanks again for all the input.
I want to pose my question in another form.
I need to do a final mix on my feature length project,( 80+min) and I have a choice. To pay a pro that I know that does this for major cable networks, $1,500. Or do I do I buy the software. learn it and do it myself.
Is it realistic to learn to do this? Just thinking about how many years I have been writing, editing and directing, and I still have lots to learn.
So maybe I'm better off going with a pro
Still, I appreciate any feedback

JD
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Digi and PT goes together.. If you can't hear the diff..then give it to a pro that can hear...there is no shortcuts..either you got the gift or you don't. Not everyone can hear the diff in editing. because it is not visual. if your buddy got the job...because he is gifted to do it..don't take the money out of his pocket..that sucks...reward the pro's for their work.

For the pros that do it right the first time..chears...from a IATSE 80 member.
 
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