Audio on the Beach

J

Joe_Hicks

Well-known member
Ok, I finished up a shoot yesterday that took place on the beach (it was documentary format). The mic was camera mounted and I knew I was screwing up from the start by doing this but because a boom wasn't available I tried to get away with it by shooting up tight-- didn't work, the waves are way too loud over the dialog. I realize I should be booming my mic and pointing away from the water for best waves/dialog ratio.

My question is this, will the ME66 suffice for this type of project? Is it's path narrow enough to produce adequate audio?

Any other suggestions for best beach audio would be welcomed.

Thx,
Joe
 
The general consensus you will find is that the ME66 is not suitable for anything. For that type of location I would use an MKH416 or AT4073a in a blimp on a boom. Beaches are prone to lots of wind plus the other elements (sand), so I would take special precautions to protect your gear.

-Jeremy
 
Let me ask you guys, if the choice is there, would you choose a boom mounted mic or lav in this situation?

Interesting comments on the ME66. When I purchased this mic, I came to this forum for info and found primarily great feedback on the mic. Maybe I should sell it and move on to one of the above mentioned mics. 90% of my work is on location documentary style.

Thanks guys,
Joe
 
depends on your frame , every shot gun would work better until some point .
if it midium / close up it the boom ,if you extrimly wide its a lavalier
 
It will also will depend on the size of your crew; if you are a crew of one; a boom might be impractical, especially on a beach.
 
yup, the boom will generally sound better. as a rule I treat lavs as a convenience tool (like in the reality show im on - 80% booming, 20% wireless lavs for those times when i know I wont be able to get to someone).

As a rule though, its great if you can run a lav AND a boom if you are just starting out (and will edit the footage yourself). Why? Because it will let you A/B different mics in post, and pick the best one. Eventually this leads to you walking into a situation knowing EXACTLY what will be the preferred choice.

Even doing sitdown interviews on the show Im on, we will run dual mics (usually lav and boom) so that post can have options when edits start in the next week or so. Ideally, we would have received feedback on what they were preferring, but it hasnt worked that way this time unfortunately.

Tim
 
timapter said:
yup, the boom will generally sound better.
Click to expand...

At this point, my concerns aren't so much what sounds better but what method will isolate the dialog from the ocean waves.

So given this, lav or boom?
 
timapter said:
yup, the boom will generally sound better. as a rule I treat lavs as a convenience tool (like in the reality show im on - 80% booming, 20% wireless lavs for those times when i know I wont be able to get to someone).

As a rule though, its great if you can run a lav AND a boom if you are just starting out (and will edit the footage yourself). Why? Because it will let you A/B different mics in post, and pick the best one. Eventually this leads to you walking into a situation knowing EXACTLY what will be the preferred choice.

Even doing sitdown interviews on the show Im on, we will run dual mics (usually lav and boom) so that post can have options when edits start in the next week or so. Ideally, we would have received feedback on what they were preferring, but it hasnt worked that way this time unfortunately.

Tim
Click to expand...

Ive been doing this a lot lately and one or the other is usually coming up great - depending on the situation. But I have learned over time which one is going to work better as you say... maybe not to your extent but its improving.
 
Joe_Hicks said:
Interesting comments on the ME66. When I purchased this mic, I came to this forum for info and found primarily great feedback on the mic. Maybe I should sell it and move on to one of the above mentioned mics. 90% of my work is on location documentary style.

Thanks guys,
Joe
Click to expand...

Guess we haven't been doing our jobs then. I take every opportunity to disparage this mic when I can.

That said beaches are a *****. Since most lavs are omni (and the hyper are horrible in wind) I have found them to get too much ambient no matter how close they are to the mouth. What has worked for me is my 816 sitting right on top of the talent. It's not a great sound but it is intelligible. The other big problem is your wind protection (I am assuming a very windy beach). A full zeppelin with a long haired kitty is a must.

Another thing that can help, if possible, is to request the talent raise their voice significantly. It all boils down to signal to noise so if you can raise the signal enough then you are good to go.

Your milage may vary.

Cheers
 
wabbit said:
Guess we haven't been doing our jobs then. I take every opportunity to disparage this mic when I can.

That said beaches are a *****. Since most lavs are omni (and the hyper are horrible in wind) I have found them to get too much ambient no matter how close they are to the mouth. What has worked for me is my 816 sitting right on top of the talent. It's not a great sound but it is intelligible. The other big problem is your wind protection (I am assuming a very windy beach). A full zeppelin with a long haired kitty is a must.

Another thing that can help, if possible, is to request the talent raise their voice significantly. It all boils down to signal to noise so if you can raise the signal enough then you are good to go.

Your milage may vary.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Ok, your comments on lavs was exactly what I was thinking-- they're gonna pick up everything as well as the wind.
I'm not looking for perfect sound, afterall this is a guy walking on the beach and I don't 50K in audio equipment to sweeten it! I am looking, as you said, for intelligibility ie signal to noise.

This shoot was done (and will be re-shot) early in the morning around 6am, so wind (to now) has not been a factor. I do use a softie for the ME66 which worked beautifully for the "breeze" we encountered.

So, really, what I'm looking for in this thread is best mic for the situation and best method to improve the signal to noise and give me the best intelligibility.

Thanks guys,
Joe
 
I just shot some clothing product shots by the seashore & stream with wave, wind and cascade noices. No way we could get a clean signal with a shotgun. Wind no problem with the full Windjammer gear, but the ambient noice especially in wide shots with the talent narrating.

Sanken Cos11s lavalier worked just beautyfully. In windy conditions with Rycote furball, when wading the brook with just the pepperball. Actually we had to add some ambience to make the soundscape realistic! With a 1 to 50 distance ratio between mouth and the shoreline there is a HUGE advantage in surpressing the unwanted sounds.
 
Petrus is pretty much on the money regarding using lavs and wind protection.

A lot of the shooting I do on the fishing show are on beaches and omni lavs work just fine. Proximity to the sound source means ambient noise is a lot less apparent. In fact, some of the shooting takes place on noisy, windy boats and lavs are the only way to go.

One way to protect the mic from wind is to place it beneath clothing. However, excessive layering can attenuate the highs -- in which case a micro cat is preferred.

Unfortunately those little fur balls are tough to hide. So it's a tradeoff between visibility and annoying wind rumble or worse.

I also have very small felt "pockets" that slip over the Countryman B3 mics which help reduce wind noise if there's not a lot of wind. Maybe 10 MPH or less. Just a bit better than a bare mic and about on par with a foam ball but a lot flatter. It can be hidden under a t-shirt with some tape.

It can also be set up just a bit outside of a headband of a baseball cap, in which case it's good for higher winds as the ball cap's visor provides some wind protection. I used this when videotaping a 92-year-old man on a boat. The guy had a very soft voice due to a larynx operation a while back. But because the mic was in such close and consistent proximity to his mouth his voice came through absolutely clear.
 
Petrus said:
I just shot some clothing product shots by the seashore & stream with wave, wind and cascade noices. No way we could get a clean signal with a shotgun. Wind no problem with the full Windjammer gear, but the ambient noice especially in wide shots with the talent narrating.

Sanken Cos11s lavalier worked just beautyfully. In windy conditions with Rycote furball, when wading the brook with just the pepperball. Actually we had to add some ambience to make the soundscape realistic! With a 1 to 50 distance ratio between mouth and the shoreline there is a HUGE advantage in surpressing the unwanted sounds.
Click to expand...

Exactly my experiences too, petrus.
I recently shot an interview of someone sitting on a concrete wall where the sea was smashing only a few feet away, and a lav mic (omni) proved to be an excellent way to get good audio. The Rycote furry has been a life-saver many times. I keep a white and black one with me all the time.
Interestingly, and something wabbit touched on, I was initially concerned that the interviewee wasn't going to speak loud enough, so to overcome that I had the interviewer simply sit some extra 5 feet further away; this worked well, and the interviewee naturally raised her voice ever so slightly; it worked out beautifully.
 
DCSensui said:
Unfortunately those little fur balls are tough to hide. So it's a tradeoff between visibility and annoying wind rumble or worse.
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Aye, that is very true.
I laugh, because I have some shots - where it's REALLY windy outside - and the interviewee has this whacking great furry thing showing....and I don't care at all about it.
The audio is great, and in this particular situation [a documentary film scenario] everyone watching knows that audio had to be recorded somehow.
But it's a case-by-case thing of course...
 
I did also have a mental debate about that Rycote Furry showing. But my conclusion was that getting a clean audio was more important to the customer than trying to hide the mic completely and having to deal with rubbing noices and high frequency filtering. This was not a movie, after all (trying to pretend there are no cameras, mics etc.), but a presentation. And people are quite used to seeing these lavaliers on newspeople etc. not to mistakenly think it is part of the fishing shirt... on every shirt and jacket...
 
Petrus said:
...mistakenly think it is part of the fishing shirt... on every shirt and jacket...
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ROFL!! :) :)
"Hmm, why are all these people in the presentation wearing shirts with pompoms on them??"

But yeah, it shows in the pic; it's an ugly mic in a furry; you can hear what's being said, get over yourselves! :)
 
Joe_Hicks said:
I've been considering this mic.
Click to expand...

The G2 gets high marks on this forum.

But: only go wireless if you have to; i.e. if the talent/interviewee is moving about. Otherwise simple get a good lav mic and use cables.
 
vidled said:
The G2 gets high marks on this forum.

But: only go wireless if you have to; i.e. if the talent/interviewee is moving about. Otherwise simple get a good lav mic and use cables.
Click to expand...

Gosh, with the stuff I do- wireless is a must. I'll shoot documentary style with the person on a Ferris wheel, walking across a street, walking through a junkyard... a reasonable amount of full length with the talent coming into half torso. I just couldn't get away with wired.

Thx,
Joe
 
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