Audio kit for hospital filming...

Defenestrated

New member
Hello all!

I work for a hospital in the UK, and a key part of my role is producing various videos (and voiceovers for presentations, e-learning courses, etc). Up until now I've basically had to make do with a variety of budget mics inputted into my DSLR, and have put up with the pretty poor quality audio. Recently though I've been granted a bit of funding and this is the kit that I really want to upgrade, especially as I'm hoping to take on a few projects in the next year that may end up being distributed outside our organisation. I've only been given about £1000 but I guess anything is a vast improvement on what I currently have to use. Unfortunately while I'm fairly ok with the principles and techniques of audio recording (by no means an expert but enough to do my job) I really have no idea where to start as far as picking out the right kit, hence my hopeful plea to you wonderfully knowledgeable folks...

The vast majority of my work is indoors and recording solo presenters or small groups - the content/setting though can range from clinical/surgical skills training (lots of closeups, usually with the voiceover recorded separately as a narrative) to more corporate stuff (group meetings, one-to-one conversations, things like that) and also some resus/clinical scenarios in ward areas. We also do interviews and documentary type videos with someone presenting to camera. The rooms here can sometimes be a bit echoey - it's all hard floors and often quite open spaces (typical of a hospital, I guess). We do sometimes do outdoor shooting but it's pretty rare and even then is usually just incidental footage for use with a voiceover rather than anything needing audio recording. I'm thinking (if I can afford it) a good boom mic and then maybe a couple of lavs? Wireless isn't necessary as we won't have any situations where I can't hide the wires away if we're using lavs.

I'm guessing I'd also need a good recorder too - I've appropriated an H4N from another department but I've only heard bad things about it (not used it yet myself). The Tascam TR-60D sounds pretty good from what I've read of it (especially as often I'll be a one man team) and possibly within my budget, so would that with a good boom mic (I saw someone mention the Audio Technica AT4053b?) do the job? I can handle the boom as usually I can set up the scene with a couple of cameras on tripods for different angles (most of the scenes tend to be quite static) and if that's not possible I can get an assistant to help out. Hiring in external help unfortunately is a no go as often the filming can be very short notice, frequently cancelled/rescheduled at the last minute, and generally speaking there's no money. I'm just quite lucky to have been handed a budget specifically for upgrading my equipment, and it'll need spending quickly or I'll lose it!

Apologies for the ramble but I wanted to make sure I was giving enough information - any advice would be much appreciated.

Many many thanks,
Tim
 
Hello Tim - welcome to the forum! The items that you suggest sound OK, but adding a DR60D (£300), AT4053b (£450) and 2 lavs (take you pick on price: say £100-200 each) is getting you right up to or over your limit (tho' I guess you might be talking £1000 ex VAT), without the implied extras: a boom pole (aluminium is cheap, but will it do the job for you?), suspension (say a Rycote lyre: good, as well as light), cables, headphones (perhaps you have decent ones already?), clapperboard, etc. And that's assuming that the outdoor element is not going to need audio (i.e. no need for windjammer) and that your hypercardioid or lav will have to suffice for voiceovers (which sound a significant part of the work and might merit a cardioid mic). So what gives? Only you know enough of your use to balance the needs: for example, do you really need 2 lavs? do you really need a recorder that is designed to go under a camera, when you will be leaving the camera alone and booming? how long a boom pole do you need? Personally, if you need all this kit and it's over-budget, I'd cut the cost of my hypercardioid (an Oktava MK012 is certainly cheaper, but needs delicate handling), go for a cheap shorter boom (e.g. Rode) but still with a Rycote lyre suspension, and you might just about manage it all for £1k! Others may chip in on merits of say the Tascam DR40 as a means of getting in budget. And how about actually checking the H4n before you replace it: may be it meets your needs (or could do with a mains powered preamp/mixer in front: the Mackie 402 VLZ is a great budget bit of kit at £95 (better preamps than in the recorder you are looking at) and you did say pretty much all your audio was inside, and that your set ups are pretty static). Hope this gives some food for thought. Cheers, Roland
 
Given your budget my first choice would be the AT4053b mic ( this is my main indoor dialog mic ) and a JuicedLink Riggy pre-amp if you own a decent camera. ( feeding audio directly to your camera ) Otherwise a Tascam DR-40 recorder is low cost and works well with the AT4053b mic.

I don't think your budget would allow for this, but a Sound Devices MM-1 boom-op pre-amp ( about $500 US ) or a Sound Devices MixPre-D mixer would be a nice upgrade to the quality of the audio you are recording. ( mic ---> mixer ---> Tascam DR-40 )

You will also want to add a good boom-pole ( the Gitzo 1540 Carbon Fiber boom-pole works quite well ) and a shockmount for your mic. ( Rycote INV-6 or Rycote Medium Hole Softie Lyre Mount / Pistol Grip )
 
+1 on the Mackie 402 VLZ3 compact mixer

NOTE: The Oktava MK012 requires a good pre-amp, so it's a bad match with most portable audio recorders. ( would be fine with the Mackie 402 VLZ3 compact mixer )
 
Fair enough on Oktava MK012 needing a good preamp - not least for the decent low-cut filter before any gain, as the supplied low-cut filter is extremely noisy ( I use my MK012 with an SD MM-1: I agree the latter would be great for Tim, but with recent price hike is out of his budget, hence the Mackie suggestion). I also agree on Gitzo carbon poles being a good budget suggestion, but again his budget may be too tight...R
 
Many thanks for your replies and advice! So much more helpful than staring blankly at countless product websites :P

Realistically, I can probably do without lavs for the time being (I have actually just found one lurking boxed up in our store room but I have no idea if it's any good - it's a Sony ECM-50PSW. Battery's dead though and I haven't had the chance to try it yet). The criticism I've read of the H4N seems to be mostly around the preamp, so do you think maybe getting a good preamp/mixer and then using the H4N for recording could work well? The Mackie 402 looks good for the price, but even though my work's mostly interior and fairly static it's not always with easy access to power, and it looks like it's mains power only... I would still prefer the flexibility of having something battery powered and portable if possible. The MM-1 and MixPre-D sound great but are both maybe a bit too much for my budget but I noticed the MP-1 too. From a quick glance it looks like the major difference to the MM-1 is the lack of a 1/4 connection for monitoring, but if I'm recording from the H4N then would I still need that? I'd assume it's always best to monitor from the last device (so the recorder), in which case the MP-1 is about £100 cheaper, which might make all the difference.

If that's a good option then the AT4053b (which I've seen for a little under £400), Gitzo 1540 (£185?), MP-1 (£410) and Lyre mount (£85) would take me to just a little over my starting budget, though I reckon I might be able to stretch upto an extra £250 from some other sources if it's worth spending that bit extra... I'm sorted for headphones, cables etc already so I don't need to shell out any more on those.
 
Daft question - but all this kit needs an experienced person to work it - it's not going to be the kind of stuff you can set and forget, so if you are doing camerawork, you need a sound op.

For what you've described, I'd certainly be looking at lavs first - they're the easiest and least tricky method to get good clarity. For meetings of more than a couple of people close together, you're into multiple mics, mixers and probably boundary mics. Clinical spaces always have tricky acoustics because they have all hard surfaces that can be easily cleaned. Any attempt to use directional mics means a good set of ears required and care and attention. The advantage of DSLRs is size and freedom, so any attempt to pin them down with extra gizmos and lots of cables spoils their ease of operation. Use the external recorder, and before you buy anything, try your budget mics into the H4 and assess the quality. Lots of people want to attach low output, high quality mics to them at unrealistic distances from the talent, and then need to whack the gain right up, and then moan they hiss. A mic in close that doesn't require bags of gain will often produce perfectly decent sound. Try this before spending your money. Decent headphones are a must. HD25s are very popular and tough. You sound like you need a wide variety of kit, not just one expensive setup. A G3 Sennheiser system, plus a budget mic on a decent mount with boom and maybe a couple of cheap boundaries for the sitting at tables stuff would do. Some of the newer portable recorder offer extra facilities - consider these and maybe get one as extra, not instead of, the H4.
 
The ECM-50 is one of Sony's (and the industries) first clip-on lapel mics. I further recall they were powered by an 'N' cell battery and were huge by today's standard, though they sounded OK and the on-screen talent especially liked the sound of the 'proximity' design mic.

Unfortunately the H4n and many of the budget recorders do not actually bypass the preamps in line mode, an internal attenuation circuit is internally switched in front of the preamp... Regardless, good quality external preamps usually does help mitigate the shortcomings of the recorder's anemic pres.
 
it looks like the major difference to the MM-1 is the lack of a 1/4 connection for monitoring

The headphone jack and amplifier in the MM-1 is essential if you ever work with a boom operator, as they need to clearly hear what the mic they are operating is capturing.

If you are working by yourself and using a boom-stand to hold your dialog mic, then you might want to see if you can find a used Audio Technica AT3031 cardioid mic ( it's been discontinued so you can only find it used ) which would save you about £300 over buying a new AT4053b mic. The AT3031 mic has a wider pick-up range which means the mic doesn't have to be positioned as accurately as the AT4053b, but it will also pick-up more room noise. I own both mics and use the AT3031 when ever I need to record two people in conversation and have no boom-op. ( the AT4053b is fine for one person if they aren't moving around much )
 
Yeah I was thinking the Sony lav looked rather "vintage" and certainly is on the big side...

Currently I tend to use a very cheap (£3 if I recall) lav connected directly into the camera, which in decent conditions can be fairly ok for solo presenters but tend to need a bit of messing in post to get a decent result. Otherwise it's been a camera mounted shotgun (a Sennheiser MKE400) and I've just tried to get the camera as close in as possible and do as much sound testing as I can before we start shooting. None of my cameras have a headphone socket so while I do have a good set of headphones I'm limited in terms of what I can monitor while shooting. I also have access to a couple of Audio-Technica Pro44 boundary mics which are used in the teaching clinic rooms here but with just the H4N's builtin preamp so far I haven't been able to get anything useable out of them (and the seemingly decent preamps they're connected to when used in the rooms are for some reason installed right out of the way in the ceiling space - handy).

My main thought with a shotgun/boom was that this would be ideal for the situations where I can set up a couple of fixed cameras (have a 650d (T4i?) and a Panasonic HD90, plus a couple of cheap touchcams that can be pretty handy if the lighting and conditions are good) and then focus on the audio, or where multiple lavs or boundary mics aren't practical (sometimes it's just not possible to mic everyone up). I definitely don't intend to ever just prop up the boom and leave, in fact I really need and want to have more control over the sound as I'm recording. I'd like to think I have a fairly decent ear for sound, although I'll freely admit my experience is limited to just a couple of years of mostly learning "on the job" and studying up as much as I can. I want to improve my own skills and my kit as much as possible though and the money needs to be spent (in the bizarre government funding way that it just seems to vanish into the ether if it isn't spent quickly!)
 
Back
Top