audio for talking heads doc.

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I am filming a doc. that primarily involves talking head interviews. Even though everyone on this site is always reccomending $400+ mics, why isn't the onboard mic doable? I hope that the reason why my footage has such poor sound is because I am not using the DVX properly- or do I just really need to purchase an expensive mic? Can I get by with making a PBS-quality doc. with a sound budget of $200 or am I just being ignorant? I would be grateful for any suggestions. I am severely technically-challenged so don't feel like you are being too blunt or patronizing.
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

In your specific case, you don't need to spend 400 dolars (wich is actually very little) on sound equipment. For the DVX mic to work it's best, your subject should be about 3-4 feet away from the camera. If that is limiting, imagine that the room must be dead quiet and the operator has to be absolutely still breathing to the side. You can imagine how limiting that may be.

In your case, instead of going for an expensive microphone, you should buy a lavalier mic, the kind television uses all the time, that you can just clip on your interviwee's clothes. That will give you Considerably better sound, with a good rejection of unwanted noise. Good lavalier microphones can be found for 150 dolars. The best can be had for 300.

If you want, you can spend 50 dolars on a bad lavalier microphone and still get better audio than the built in mics. If you don't want to spend anything, well what can you do... Use the built in mic and hope for the best, but expect the worse. You might be going to TV, that doens't require quality, but still require inteligibility. The main problem with the built in mic is that it will capture a lot of ambience and that will make the sound less inteligible. A bad lavalier is called bad because it will recor the audio with a low fidelity compared to the original voice, but still will record a lot less noise than the built in mic, giving you inteligibility. If you are shooting talking heads, I take it's important to hear what they are talking about, right?

And the reason because your footage has poor sound is because sound is a difficult complex work, requiring the expertise and experience of very good professionals. Good sound is the result of a lot of hard work and, well... Honestly, the DVX mic is crap...
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

That was a pretty good summary Taubkin.

Hey Sylvia... I'm constantly suggesting high dollar mics to people, but I also recommend a few LOW dollar mics which work really well. A lav is a fine choice, but for whatever reason I just don't like lavs much... maybe it's the rigging, or clothing noise which is all but inevitable (people shift and move AFTER the interview is 5 minutes in)... or maybe it's that it takes a pretty good lav to sound as good as a fairly cheap mic. Professional sound guys have a lot more in their sound gear then we have in cameras... there's a reason for that, BUT just like with video... half the battle is TECHNIQUE. Proper use of any mic gets you 50% success, proper handling of acoustics gets you another 40% and the last 10% is in the quality of the gear.

So you can get 90% success just by choosing a reasonable mic and then using it right, plus pay attention to the space you're recording in.

If you have a Guitar Center near you go get an Oktava Mk012 with Cardioid Cap and -10db pad. $99-$125. You'll also need a 25' XLR to run around a boom arm, down the stand, and back to your camera. Since we're talking crazy low budget here I'm assuming you can find a way to get the mic over your speaker one way or another... it's best to point the mic at the mouth, at an angle, pointing down from a bit in front and over the speaker's head... but again, since we're talking DIRT cheap, you can even hang the mic by the XLR with the mic head JUST out of frame, about 6" in front of the speaker's mouth (verticle plane).

T
::)

There's the mic hanging down from something over the speaker.

Getting a mic as close as physically possible (while staying out of sight) is the FIRST concern to get good sound.

BTW I'm also a big fan of the At3031 which is $170 at B&H. That's another DIRT cheap mic for what you get.
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

If it's a talking head, you have two options:

-You can go the Lav route, which works very well. I would just rent a hard wired lav, rather than buy.

-You can but a hypercardioid just out of the shot, and that should work well. The Oktava recommendation is a good low cost way to do this.

If you use the on board camera mic, then it will sound bad, and you will be upset that you did that.



-Dave
 
look for used m-15Re: audio for talking heads doc.

look for used m-15Re: audio for talking heads doc.

These replies are really great, but I'm afraid I'm still a bit lost.
Though my doc. is primarily interior talking heads, a bit of it will be reality tv style as I follow my subjects around doing daily activities (int. & ext.)

So should I go with a lav or a cam-mounted shotgun? The whole boom pole idea would be great if I had some help but this is a truly independent film.

Any specific mic advice plus absolutely necessary accesories would be great. I did a dvxuser.com search and came up with the following possibilities. This site is a labyrinth and I often leave more confused than when I came sadly.

look for used m-150 lectrosonics on e-bay around 60-80$
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

...CONTINUED (more bits from previous posts)

2. I have found the Radio Shack lav mics @ $24.99 to work fine for voices during wedding ceremonies. buy extra windscreens.

3. You can get a cheapo lav for $20, or a superb Countryman EMW for $170. It's the cheapest way in the world to dramatically upgrade your audio.

4. If you get an Oktava hyper, K-SSM shockmount, Rycote BBG/Jammer... you'll spend a LOT less then an me66 with mount and Softie... and you'll have a FAR superior mic
I picked up a sony I think 144 lav mic from BH photo for around $60 and it works great

5. if you nees a good lav ( since there are times that you need it ) the countryman emw ,b-6 ,sony ecm 88, SENHEISER -ME-2 , SANKEN coss-11, dpa4061 or 4071 could be very good solutions
every one have its better sides
the emw is the cheapest (one of my favorits)
the sanken is the best for the ties , the dpa for the clarity and the b-6 (you have to see it to belive ) for hair mikking and every other place that you wont to take the mike outside from the cloths and its woterproof
stat with country man emw about 200$ per mike and another 30-40 for clips


...........So now what???......................
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

I'm addicted to these forums but even I get tired of trying to convince people to do things the right way.

If you're doing on-cam sound then you can still cam mount a hyper... such as the Oktava... as long as you get a good mount like the K-Tek KSSM. This will yield FAR superior results then attempting to use the built-in mics. For an on-cam shotgun the Audio Technica 897 would be decent and fairly cheap.

The best way to good sound is minimum distance from mic to mouth... say it with me... the best way to good sound is minimum distance from mic to mouth!

However you want to get the mic close to the mouth is up to you. If booming is too much trouble... then maybe try a lav... If you absolutely insist on doing on-cam micing then you better be fairly close to your subject AND you just relenquished your ability to work with the room acoustics... booming almost always handles other problems besides just getting the mic close while still off-camera... booming also allows you to listen to the room echos and set position and angle to minimize those issues.

Getting good sound really isn't all that hard... but just like everything else in life. THERE 'AINT NO FREE LUNCH.
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

Get a dirt cheap lav... use that when you can... put it within 1' of the mouth. Breast pocket... under button... or simply in plain view on the clothing.

Get a dirt cheap cardioid... The Oktava even from Guitar Center is acceptable... otherwise get the AT3031 for $170. Put that on-cam and use it when you follow people in the reality style.

If you can find a way to get that same mic within 2' of the speakers mouth... either by overhead booming or on a low stand pointing UP at the mouth... you should be really happy.

So by going to just a little extra trouble you could get decent results with only the AT3031.

I like the Oktavas but they really DEMAND a good shockmount. If you're lucky enough to find an Oktava for $99 and you get the K-Tek KSSM for $109 (plus shoe-adapter) then you'll have a system which can be boomed, stand-mounted, or placed on-camera... with acceptable results in each use.

You will discover limitations on your own... nobody expects 1 mic and 1 approach to yield professional results... but maybe the job it does will really be good enough.

Since you even considered trying everything with the in-cam mics I don't think you'll be all that hard to please if you make just a little effort.
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

Thanks Matt! That is precisely what I needed to hear. I am very grateful :)
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

I have a pair of the Oktava's and I use them all the time. I love them, but they can be a bit boomy. If you can find it on sale for $100 with all the capsules, buy as many as you can. These are great mics for sound fx recording, especially when you need to put the mic in a risky situation. If the mic gets trashed, no big deal. It's not like it's a $2000 DPA mic.

-Dave
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

I agree. I've been using an Oktava hyper as my boom mic and I'm really happy with the results I'm getting. I'm even more happy considering the quality vs cost problem that most of us have to struggle with.
 
Re: audio for talking heads doc.

If you are going to be following people around, I would use wireless. You can get a good system for around $499.

-Dave
 
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