audio for small doc

DeSica

DeSica

Well-known member
I've been doing some research on here, and elsewhere, on sound equipment choices for a little documentary I want to start shooting. I'm trying to keep the budget low, but I do want some good sound, since I will be submitting to festivals and looking to get it shown on TV.

I'm going to use my PD 100a, and while it does have an attachment with an XLR input that I can mount a shotgun to, I want to use wired lavs.

It's all going to be seated interview type stuff, and very informal, so hiding the mics isn't important. I was thinking of running the lav into a Zoom H4, and mounting my NTG-2 on the camera as backup. I prefer wired to wireless since I have read about the possibility of dropped audio, etc, on here in some posts.

The only wired lav I could find around online around here is the Audio Technica AT803b, and it's C$239 (plus tax). I've seen it at half that price online in the US, but I have no diea how good it is. I checked Henry's and Vistek, but everything seems to be wireless, or stuff I am not sure I could use.

Would using that model AT be okay in conjunction with the H4, and could it produce acceptable sound if I had to run it straight to the camra in a pinch?

Is there another lav I should be hunting down that can provide solid quality at a decent price (C$200-300).

Any helpful advice would be appreciated.
 
You could also rent a mic quite cheaply. I don't know about the States, but often times if we have to shoot something, we rent a bunch from Long & McQuades in Toronto. Got everything from shotguns to diaphragm mics. Rented a KSM32 for $19. Might be a better option for you...plus you'd be able to access better quality mics.

Any of the Shure lavs are pretty good. The Sony ECM-55 is also a good solid lav.

If you are going to have two mics, I would have a shotgun and the lav. Shotgun about 60% lower level than whatever you have the lav at. It's good to have some ambience so it's more realistic than "studio perfect", especially for documentary.
 
Something told me to try Long & McQuade when I was writing the initial post. I actually bought my NTG-2 at the Bloor St. West location last year. I like their service...very helpful. I lived like 10 blocks away until a few months ago.

I didn't know you could rent lavs from them. I know many working musicians rent from them all the time, but as a film resource, it often slips the mind. I should give them a call. The reason I would like to buy is so that I can be ready to shoot whenever I need to. I will probably be interviewing 7 or more subjects, so scheduling won't be easy.

Still curious about the quality of sound I'll get running a lav into a Zoom H4, and straight into the camera if need be.

In the meantime, I'll check out the Shure stuff they have. Thanks
 
Almost all of the "good"/"high-end" lavs come in flavors that can be hard wired. This includes the Countryman B6 and the Sanken COS-11. Get one of those two and you will be set for a long time. If you add wireless down the road, both are great for that too.

As far as mic'ing goes, unless you're shooting the interview < 2' from the speakers, you might as well not bother with the ntg on the camera. It will give you a scratch track, not backup audio. Better to buy a cheap mic stand (Guitar Center sells one for like $30) and hang the ntg over the speakers.

Phil
 
Hi there!

It sounds like you've been given the impression that audio dropout is common, it's not really, HOWEVER as a rule using a wired lav is still prefferable to radios.

How many people will need a mic? you'll need a mixer if its more than two. (or use your H4 for additional channels)

Also, you'd be absolutely fine recording onto the camera, for dialogue the sound quality is fine.
 
I've been shopping as well for a good lav and looking at the Countryman EMW, B3, and B6. Best price I've found so far is at www.northernsound.net near Pittsburgh. These are all in the price range you mentioned. I talked to them on the phone and they were helpful.
 
I'm not saying I fully expect dropped sound with wireless...I just want to avoid the risk. Plus wired gets you more bang for the buck.

I tracked down a Countryman EMW kit with flat response at Trew audio for about C$265, including wiring it for XLR. The Sanken would be about $150-200 more, so I'll probably go with the EMW, since it is just a bit more expensive than the Audio Technica I mentioned in my original post, but a better mic.

As for going straight to camra, I still feel hesitant about that. Sony's camera pre-amps don't exactly get glowing reviews, so I may try and track down a Zoom H4. The Trew in Vancouver was out, but here should be a different story.

All Long & McQuade had for sale was a Apex 150 for C$150, and it doesn't strike me as the proper mic. I think the sales guy I called misunderstood what I was looking for.
 
If you do a search, I did an A/B comparison of the B6, EMW and ME2 (stock G2 mic).

I think you'll like the EMW for the price.

Phil
 
Thanks.

I never questioned the quality of a Countryman or Sanken, but was just wondering if the equipment I was able to track down at the time was adequate, and which configuration would best suit my needs as well as budget.

The EMW seems like a great value for a wired lav. If I can find a used Sanken or a B6 at a comparable price, then I'll go that route. Otherwise it'll be an new EMW (unless there is a used one in stock).
 
The Zoom is not going to improve your preamp situation. For about the same price you can get a single channel Sound Devices preamp or spring for the Mixpre at around $700.

Cheers
 
What ever you do DO NOT use a Zoom H4. I had one which I used a couple of times but it has a unique quirk of mixing up its timing. Therefore any audio recording you make that you nicely sync'd up with your video at the begining of the shot will be out of sync within 5 mins.

Annoyingly its not even a simple case of time streching the audio to match the video as the unit seems to minutely speed up and slow down during recording making matching very difficult. I was unaware of these problems until I used it the second time for a wedding and it was totally unusable (luckily the camera sound I had from 2 cameras was good enough to use).

I searched online and found this is a common complaint and mine simply isn't faulty or out of date.

Just wish to pass on my experience :)
 
As for the EMW... I bought one a little over a month ago from Northern Sound. they were helpful and had the right price. I requested a special order that had to be drop shipped from countryman. I got the EMW wired for the G2 with an adapter that enables me to use it as a hard wired lav straight into the camera. Seems like a great idea to me. Almost like getting 2 mics. It will cost a little more - but it's much cheaper than buying 2 separate mics. I'm very happy with it.
 
I was set on an EMW, but they ran out at Trew. They found a brand new B3 and XLR wired it for me, and actually charged me a bit less than the EMW would have cost.
 
I personally use an Apogee Minime which is a pre and a/d converter. Its very high quality and gives you two channels, having AES and spdif outputs to a lower cost solid state recorder. Also has firewire/usb options for connecting directly to a laptop. It can take battery power with the right adapter and with the price drop is under $1000. I can plug either wired or wireless mics into it for off camera recording.
 
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