Audio for documentary...

johny_pablo

johny_pablo

Member
will be going to india for several weeks this summer to shoot a documentary, its kinda gonna be reality TV style (ie real world, etc).... and i have some concerns for audio. i just purchased a dvx 100a.... which is what i've used on several occasions... i know i know i should have gone for the hvx.... but i just dont have the $$$. anyway... im thinking i want to mic up to 5 people on wireless lavs, AND have an on cam shotgun for nat sound.... how do i record all of that audio to tape..... and if i can't do that how do i do it portably, as we will be on the run and i will basically be the only crew... i know its amitious but i would really like some feedback and advice.:thumbsup:
 
So: five wireless and one shotgun?

PSC's DV Promix 6 mixer is the only 6-channel ENG mixer that I know of. I haven't used it, but I've had a PSC M4 mkII for years (nice mixer, though not as feature-laden as the Sound Devices alternative). Aternately, you could gang together two 3-channel mixers with the same effects, albeit heavier. Wendt makes a 5-channel ENG mixer, which would let you mix the five wireless onto one channel, leaving the on-camera shotgun for the camera's preamp.

Either way, with all those wireless recievers, that rig's going to get pretty heavy by the end of the day.
 
agreed... but im psyched about doing it and comfort is not that much of an issue for me.... its really affordability and battery power... which is a concern... and as far as audio in the field im a nube... i wanna buy lavs, mixer, and a shotgun + batteries(which i dont fully understand the battery powered mixer yet... i've never used one) for lets say $1250 is that even possible????
 
I think about $2500 will get you 5 G2 wireless and EMW mics. I believe the Wendt x5 is about another $2500. Reality style will need a boom to get audio from people who are not miced, unless they always stand 2 feet from someone on a wireless or the camera.

Might be time to re-acess that OMC thing. I think $5000 might buy you a sound guy in India for a couple weeks...maybe not.

Somewhere around 30 to 50 batteries a day will power your 5 wireless and mixer. An NP1 battery distribution could power your mixer and RX. Still need about 10 to 20 AA for the transmitters. Check out NiMh rechargeables for them.

Cheers
 
johny_pablo said:
agreed... but im psyched about doing it and comfort is not that much of an issue for me.... its really affordability and battery power... which is a concern... and as far as audio in the field im a nube... i wanna buy lavs, mixer, and a shotgun + batteries(which i dont fully understand the battery powered mixer yet... i've never used one) for lets say $1250 is that even possible????
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You are being totally unrealistic here. Firstly as an audio noob that has never used and doesn't understand a mixer or wireless mics, no matter how much you spend, you will be throwing money away. As the only crew member your best bet would be to get a good shotgun, a shockmount, zeppelin, fuzzy and a boom pole. Set up so you can either mount the mic on camera or on the boom pole when you can talk someone into holding it for you. Get a decent set of headphones and a few good XLR cables of different lengths. You are now over your budget, so if you really want a mixer and 5 wireless lavs, that would even be worth a mention, add another $4000-$5000 and you may be able to go that route.
 
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hire soundman - this is your only chance get sound in your situation
no boom will cover you every one which are not 3 meters from you

or sell the camera and buy sound -what remind me nice story from Ohenry ;-)
 
yeah man, sorry. even g2's with emw's will prob come out a bit OVER $2500! You need a sound person, or you need to change your goal. sorry.
 
Opps. You're right Tim, it's $3500 for both G2 and EMW. Had the correct figure in my head but put down just the G2 cost.

So that would be $6000 plus another $1000 for a cheap boom setup and maybe like $500 minimum for your power budget.

BS to all those that say you can't do this alone...all those other productions that use a camera and sound person just like blowing money for the fun of it...and they are lazy too. ;-)
 
"Get a sound person" is probably the advice everybody would give you here. And I think any of the pros here would come up with much better solutions than 5xwireless, if you discribed in more detail what you plan to do. However, if you see no other chance than 5 x wireless (like 5 people running around naked in the wilderness reciting Shakespeare, you need them all lip sync, and only you are allowed to watch and film them) think about this:
- feed 2 wireless mics to the camera, two to a mixer/field recorder. Saves you the four-channel mixer, which you wouldn't be able to handle while shooting anyway.
- use wired lavs on minidic recorders (borrowed from friends) and use old-school sync proceedures.
- any combination of the two
- rent what you can't afford.


Martin
 
minidisks , recorder , and that he would able to handle , hear real time ,synchronize later , few weeks project slate every take on doco reality (uhhhh)
what a wonderful idea , you probably did it all your life :-)
comm-an - if you want reinvent the wheel , try to make it round
 
Oleg 2 said:
what a wonderful idea , you probably did it all your life :-)
comm-an - if you want reinvent the wheel , try to make it round
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Did the minidisc thing once with 2 sources (yes, in a forrest, but no...) and it came out far better than I feared. But I wouldn't exactly call it reinventing the wheel.
 
Are you shooting with only one camera? Trust me that it would make your life a whole lot better, albeit more expensive, to shoot with two cams. Plus you have 4 audio channels right there.
 
yep now do it with 3 like that and documentary 10 hours straight shooting with 100 takes for few days then sit and try to sync it without tc
not to mention when you shoot documentary you better hear what people say to point the lens in the direction -
by the way this was may work with zaxcom zeffiro tc recorders , but 3 like that cost 3000, not to mention the lavalieres and all the aditional stuff (2 wierless )
so yep you didn't reinvent the wheal but it is flat tiere one :-)
 
Alex DePew said:
Are you shooting with only one camera? Trust me that it would make your life a whole lot better, albeit more expensive, to shoot with two cams. Plus you have 4 audio channels right there.
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now he would need another camera , camera person and asoundman whith the gear ;-)
 
i really think the simplest solution here is still to hire someone. good grief... cheap almost always means hellishly complicated.

not to say that there is something wrong with cheap - everyone has to start somewhere.

my advice is - if you cant get a sound person, skip wireless entirely. i promise you that running a 5 or 6 track mix down to 2 channels is going to be pretty much impossible for a one man band without major screw ups.

my suggestion would (gasp) be to get a good on camera mic, and a decent boom mic. then rope a film student or someone into swinging boom. you'll cover more with less mistakes this way. sure, it wont be the best result that is POSSIBLE, but you're not paying for the best result possible, so it would be unrealistic to expect that.

cheers, and good luck - this sounds difficult.
 
yeah... i know what your saying.... im definitely gonna go for a good cam mic.... (gasps also).... i wish i was a pile of money but im not. i know its really ambitious but i can also do a lot in post pro.... so what im really wondering i guess is would id be worth it to get a cheaper field mixer and some cheaper mics on top of my shotgun.... i know it'll be rough, but its also a doc.... so that roughness is more forgivable.... know what i mean?
 
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