Attempts at better than average footage with a CHEAPNESS!!

I

illacov

Member
Here's the deal,
first off my name is Illumination and this is my first post.

Introduction out of the way ...


I've seen a good deal of "broadcaster" video cameras on the web for sale under 500 US Dollars...usually waaay under.

The only thing is they shoot SVHS and as I understand that's a dead or dying format, however these broadcast camcorders offer much more flexibility than a consumer camcorder (changeable lenses, marked focus rings for manual focus..etc)...

So why choose one??? I'd love to see how useful these things are in conjunction with a DOF adapter (Go35). The cameras I've looked at utilize only (1) CCD, however they do boast 400 lines of resolution.......

Ok let's step back for a moment and say what would happen if we bypassed SVHS tape altogether and only used the camera as a capture device and stored our actual footage on something else like a miniDV camcorder thru its video inputs (maybe one with svideo in??) or a DVD Recorder..(mpeg 2 compression might be acceptable)

Or for those who really want to push the envelope....what if we used a laptop with a nice 500 gb external drive and we ran our s video (on the Panasonic Reporter) out into a converter like a DAC100 and then went firewire into our laptop.

Ok I know its alot to take into consideration so heres some diagrams for ya

Panasonic AG450 -(VIDEO OUT/IN)->minidv camcorder->Firewire->PC

Or

Panasonic AG450 -(SVIDEO OUT/IN)->DVD RECORDER

Or

Panasonic AG450 -(SVIDEO OUT/IN) ->DAC100->Firewire->PC

Which way would you go if you had to choose one????

Either way these solutions all avoid SVHS tape. An A/V tech said that this is the equivalent of capturing what you see on a professional monitor on a hard drive or a dvd and thru the process avoiding generational loss...By the way..the A/V tech said he would prefer DVD because its easier to import and its the least bulkiest of the 3 setups.

But anyways...enjoy mulling this over...I can't wait for this to be torn apart :dankk2:

Peace
Illumination
 
thre is so little resolution captured byt he snesors of those cameras in the first place by bypassing the actuall anaolog format you will just get decntly better results but nothing that couldn't be out done resolution wise by a 200 dollar consumer mini-dv camera. Might be nice to learn manual controls and some of the more professional options those cameras offer but aside from learning it is not worth it the effort.
 
yeah, and you could use the cheap minidv as a 2nd camera or playback deck when you upgrade...
 
John_Hudson said:
Your name is Illumination ?
Click to expand...

LMAO! :D Too cool.

Yeah, there's really no point in using a single chip. And you're not gaining anything by "bypassing" the SVHS. The analog output of that camera won't give you the resolution you'd get out of a simple miniDV camera (as others have already said). I wouldn't bother with it. Good idea, and I think it's great to think "outside of the box" but in this case I don' know that it would do you much good. At least in terms of image quality.
 
Keep this convo going...

Keep this convo going...

So what you're saying is a 200 buck minidv camera is the better choice, despite the fact that I'd have to get a compatible rail system for the consumer model so I can put one of those heavy adapters (DOF adapter) on the camcorder and buy the lens needed.

Alot of the consumer units ARE single chip, 3 CCD units aren't falling out of the sky in the consumer market last I checked, hence the higher price.

I just fail to see how a unit designed for people to see video and thats about it, is going to be much more useful to a person trying to get into filming videos and short films than a professional camera that despite its age was designed for its footage to be broadcast....what am I missing....

the more I listen the dollar signs start adding up....

Is it really cheaper to buy the camera that specs out better but is less flexible in application??? I guess you guys are saying alot of independant films have been shot with handycams???

I had a senior A/V tech tell me today that Im better off buying a minidv camera like the ones they sell at walmart and a microphone to film music videos and short films...and oh yeah a tripod.

I was highly pissed off....

I think maybe telling him I manage a Hip Hop label led him to believe I don't know my ass from my elbow, so "tell him that all aspiring film makers use Samsung handycams to shoot their first debut." I mean HOW could working in a professional format be an absolute waste of time?? Look at the focus ring on a SVHS reporter compared to your average consumer minidv camera. How does working on the consumer camera prepare you for professional work?? You wouldn't know a fast lens from a telephoto zoom, because you'd never require it or know you need it.

I shoot photographs on film btw so that's why I'd prefer to stick with the same mindset when I start with film..I doesn't make sense to me to ignore the principles of photography, when I purchase the device I capture moving pictures with.

I just wish someone could show me the difference. I understand that going from near progressive scan to progressive scan will make a difference.

But I have yet to see alot of these consumer camcorders really do anything that makes a splash in the bucket for those that care.

They all look like someone shot these pieces of video with a Walmart camcorder.

My basis for my whole perspective is that the news has always looked pretty sharp and if these cameras are used for broadcast then they should be of pretty good quality ( for their images).

Im not expecting DVX100 results folks...but what else can get you off the ground, with a DOF adapter implemented for under 600 dollars???

Please show me the light and I will gladly bow down....

For arguments sake.....

Cost wise

Panasonic AG450 175.00
Go35 270.00
Nikon Lens 50.00
Filters 30.00

Total 525.00 USD

Panasonic PV-GS36 200.00 (Would you even put a DOF adapter on this thing???)
Go35 270.00
Nikon Lens 50.00
Filters 30.00
Rail System (at least) 150.00

Total 700.00 (Personally without the DOF adapter I think these cameras look like trash...)
Peace

Illumination
 
Ok, just as a quick response. You said yourself that the SVHS will only resolve about 400 lines. Most miniDV cams will do about 525. At least that's what they claim in the specs. So yes you'd have more "control" with a broadcast camera, but if you used a 35mm adapter you'd still have the same control because you'd be focusing with the 35mm lens, not the camcorder lens.

Your comparison of people walking around filming independent films with handicams is an apples to oranges comparison. Nobody makes independent films with the SVHS camera you are talking about either, so it's really a moot point.
 
Quick reply to your quick reply

Quick reply to your quick reply

So you can see where Im coming from when the guy says to get a Walmart handy cam....

Thank you for understanding me..

Obviously if you had options you would choose neither....however this is the board where people build DOF adapters with Q Tips..

Im simply trying see if we can push that envelope further by trying out some of the older rigs that were used by professionals to shoot footage, for movies or tv whatever....

For me Im not totally stuck on the lines of resolution because most people will be viewing the products we do on 17 inch lcd monitors anyways..if you can capture a crisp image, then you're golden point blank....Progressive scan or no, it won't matter if the shot doesn't work..Right???

I've got a self imposed limit right here of under 700 dollars...I'd be blowing Satan before I snag a used GL1 for that much so for now I have to aim low.

Put it this way...I in no way can get to the features the broadcast cameras offer on a consumer level, I would have to get the cameras that replaced those broadcasters and right now they cost too much for me to get one.

However I can make some money shooting weddings etc...and buy a GL2.


I guess I have to bite the bullett either way on this one, right??

The biggest problem I have is nobody really has any real footage on the web of what the SVHS cameras shoot like.

Hmmm..

any helpers??

Peace

BTW No cheap solutions yet???

Illumination
 
"For me Im not totally stuck on the lines of resolution because most people will be viewing the products we do on 17 inch lcd monitors anyways..if you can capture a crisp image, then you're golden point blank....Progressive scan or no, it won't matter if the shot doesn't work..Right???"

17 inch lcd monitors still can go quite high in resolution, so your still talking about a reasonably low quality image.
 
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