at what point are we self destructing?

grinner

grinner

Carbonite Member
We've all accepted gigs that in no way required us. To much exptent, it's what we do for a living, if corporate videos pay the bills.
Never has anyone acused big business of spending soundly. More often than not we get added to a pull of 20 or more working on a video that requires one dude, a camera and a laptop with FCP on it. As we witness reckless and needless spending over and over, then feel the burn when budgets dry up, are we aiding to our own demise? Without a doubt they'd be spending this money with or without us but at what point will common sense take the place of overspending?
Today for example, I revised a video that I know will never see the light of day. I have well over 10k of my time in it alone and by the looks of things, the young director wants to make it an even 20 or so before the whole project gets yanked from under him by the powers that be. I see this. I saw it when he hired me and I saw it more clearly as I waisted their money today.
It becomes dangerous for us to just say yes sir at this stage of economy, especially when we know how to get to the bottom line at a fraction of the cost. Still, we remain in the ego-feeding business. We learned long ago, especially in the linear daze, that while ya never say no, yes is seldom the answer and it's all in making your idea their idea. I can't really do that with this kind of stuff though. I either take the gig and waiste their money or I pass the profits to my competitors who are happy to waist it.
thoughts?
 
I've regretted saying yes to a job or two, even when I needed the money. I agree with you that "No" is a viable option for many reasons.



______
 
I regret the last job I did for $50K plus per diem... only because I don't think it will see the light of day either... in fact, I can't even tell you guys anything about it... it's super-secret... but I accepted their saran-wrapped blocks of cash, and I think the whole situation sucks. *burp*
 
Shady deals are one thing. Doing jobs that will add up to no more work for that company are plum nerve racking.
I don't kid myself into thinking they'd not waiste this money with somebody else this year if I passed but it really is reckless spending that will kill these budgets next year. Knowing I am part of the problem takes much fun out of this. I mean, I could have clipped on a tie and gone to a job I didn't like decades ago and not had to worry about money. I elected to dream-chase and temporary money kept me pushing buttons instead of chasing for a while, I think.
It's a juggling act ya know? Pay the bills but peck away on off time at the dream so we are not 40 year old men asking ourselves what happened one day.
I guess in the end, the key is to always be peckin'. but the stress of hoping my projects mature before my income sources file is a bit distracting with a family of 5.
 
Well, I'm 43 and I ask my self "what happened?" every day....

But I am going through this right now. There's another local vendor that I have worked through a couple of times on well-paying gigs for the same client. Nice vendor, nice client. But there is an upcoming gig that they wanted me to sub on that, going through this other vendor, would be a 3-4 person gig, probably coming it at more than double what I could do it for. I have done this specific type of shoot many times, and it requires 2 people to shoot edit and deliver. So I said no, even though losing me as part of the package probably takes the initial vendor out of the running for the job, since they can't do what I do, and I'm pretty sure the client knows that.

I have nothing against making a good living, but you have to have some ethics if you want to sleep at night. But it's not always a black and white, simple decision, because I just screwed another vendor out of some good money, and they are not happy with me.
 
I feel ya Jim. While I can't afford to pass up on gigs today, I know I can't afford to keep helping them kill their department. In the long run, this is not what I want to be doing so it may be quite intentional deep down.
It's hard being in the oppeasing business sometimes. Oppeasing when it's not cost effective or even effective, ironicly is not oppeasing at all. You know what I'm talking about. Dude from the back of the room busts out with something like "can you do a page turn here?"
Now, you could put it in there but neither of you would work again so you snicker as if you thought he was joking, offer a quick glow transition and make it his idea. Going through the motions on gigs that are lame from the get-go is different though. I don't feel like I am enhancing in these cases but just part of the milking machine that will close their doors next year.
 
There's a guy in STL that got a grant for $100K... and so far I've seen or heard nothing from it... only meetings about "what is coming"... It's been well-over a year... and I think the dude got himself a RED with it.

I shot video for another dude... a "green guy"... I was on the board for that organization... and that guy got some pretty serious grants also... I think he's been paying his mortgage with it.

Point? Don't feel bad... take the money... the people you're getting it from surely got it from somebody else (one way or another). I could care LESS what I'm doing sound for... all I know is the sh*t will sound great... and I had better get paid... beyond that you're over-thinking it.
 
I will shoot or run sound for ANYTHING if it pays and doesn't harm anybody... unless the harm is self-imposed... such as Jackass... or poor judgement from an investor... then I will actually give a discount.

This reminds me of the South Park... "Oh... I get it... say one thing, and do another!"

Either take the money, do the gig to the best of your ability, and don't complain about it... OR... don't take the money on principle, show the producers the error in their ways, and share your principles so others may learn from your example.

This is coming from a guy who has been part of successful businesses and failed businesses... I have lost my ass more then once... it isn't you rolling the dice, and it won't be you winning the jackpot, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over somebody else hitting snake eyes.
 
Last edited:
I think part of professionalism is sometimes distancing yourself from your client's grand designs and just ensuring that you are delivering the best possible materials for which you're responsible. It's their vanity; it's your living.

I think of it as being paid enough to not care.

Although I don't entirely agree regarding the complaining, if the complaint takes the form of an entertaining story.
 
That's what I'm saying... if it sounds like sh*t because I didn't do a good job... that's my problem... if the product doesn't sell because the content isn't good... that's their problem. Simple.

On most shoots I don't even hear words anymore... I listen to sound. The content has to be REALLY good for me to remember what the day was about...
 
same here. I have clients sometimes ask me what someone said. I could tell at what level it was said and if a plane were flying overhead at the time but I aint listening to words. I assume he said em all. Ask him.
lol
Matt well have to do lunch one of these daze, man.
 
^^^ I agree with both of the above posts.

And on the original subject, I say take the job and the money.
 
It's not a question of taking it, it's knowing it's leading to the end of these gigs, departments and companies that sucks.
I know one client (our local cable company) is gonna file sometime this year and I only hope I get paid before they do. As they make dumb decisions, it's easy for me to see how and why this happened to them. Onward they go though, placing people who don't know what they are doing in charge of budgets they just don't have.
crazy.
freakin manopoly on a market and still can't turn a profit? Dude thats as easy as rotating some management
...or lack thereof.
 
My wife worked for a very large, multinational computer company for years. The waste she saw from within was unconscionable. I am sure that it led (at least in part) to their current precarious situation.

People in large groups can be very dumb, especially when there is no sense of ownership.
 
thats the bottom line. No ownership means no pride. I responsibility. Hence the clock milkers and the wrong people in the wrong positions. I watch a whole lot of grown ups fake their ways through a career and by in large my job is to make them look as if they know what they are doing.
I kid you not, I have recently made videos for big name brands talking about how contemporary the brand is now gonna be...and to kick things off here's another middle aged six-figured white guy to tell us how he's gonna do it!
lol
good lord, ya can't write this stuff.
 
Tens of thousands of dollars isn't sh*t to most companies... I'm telling you... don't worry about it. I'm baffled by the attitude on this... you pick oranges when the sun shines and they get ripe... the ones you don't pick get picked by somebody else... or they rot on the ground. Accept the nature of business and your place in it... and be happy for gigs that come your way.

There's no self-destruction here unless you're consciously doing a bad job. Give them what they want and get paid for it... thank them for the work and the pay... then move on to the next gig.

There are 3 distinct layers of production happening in STL. The top layer is like carpenters building houses... they show up and beat nails... they don't think about who will move into the house or if they can pay their mortgage... they don't even THINK about that stuff... trust me, that's the layer to be in.

Don't worry about that which doesn't warrant worrying. As far as I'm concerned everything I've ever done for anybody within the world of video has been a great deal for them, and they were lucky to get me for the price paid.
 
You're a professional paid to deliver a product on-time and to-spec, to serve the client's goals.

If the client's goal is the destruction of their own business, that's not your problem. So long as they pay in full, and on time.
 
One of the things I try to do with all of my clients (granted I am a small company that deals largely with other small companies, non-profits and state agencies), is to dialogue with them about how the project they are paying me for fits into their long and short tem goals. Not only does this allow me to deliver a product that does what they need, it gives them the opportunity to revisit their strategy when necessary. I have either lost gigs or had them postponed for this, but the clients always come back to me.

Of course, I have had that dialogue fall on deaf ears, and taken the job and the money. I think that part of the original point of this thread is that a mercenary-suck-the-teat-dry mentality has the potential to cost you as much as it costs the client. The longer they stay profitable, the longer they can afford to hire you. If they go under, they can't write you checks any more.

Sometimes they will listen, sometimes they won't. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they aren't. But, I always feel better when I ask the questions.
 
Jim Brennan said:
I think that part of the original point of this thread is that a mercenary-suck-the-teat-dry mentality has the potential to cost you as much as it costs the client. The longer they stay profitable, the longer they can afford to hire you. If they go under, they can't write you checks any more.
Click to expand...

This is true. I have to admit that I am overly accustomed to thinking in terms of customers with essentially bottomless pockets. And in terms of companies that don't go bankrupt and disappear; they go bankrupt and rename themselves...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top