AT BP4029 (M/S) or AT BP4025 (X/Y)

J

jazzman_bcn

New member
Hey there everyone, I have been following the forums for quite a while however never registered until today.

I am looking into adding a new microphone to my gear and although I am very interested in one of these two mikes, I've found very little info about them!

Basically I want a stereo mike for ambience recording (not music) and maybe some FX, and I've read the BP4025 is pretty good, however the BP4029, having the possibility of being a shotgun (at the moment I have a Rode NTG-2), would save me a lot of time in switching mikes everytime I have to do a fast recording.

*Also if there is another microphone/setup you could suggest me UNDER $1000, I would appreciate it (please don't mention mikes over $1000, I am not rich....yet)

So basically my questions are:

1. Which one would be better for what I want?

If any of you have the BP4029, I'd like to know:
2. How does it perform as a shotgun (mounted on a boom with blimp, not on a camera)


Thanks in advance for your time!! :)
 
Well, you want to record dialog in mono, so I think you'd be much better off sticking with the NTG-2 as your gun for now and adding a pair of small condenser mics with at least cardioid and hyper-cardiod capsules so you have something to record ambiance with as well as something good for interior dialog.

Stereo shotguns are rather specialized and I've very rarely seen any in use.
 
First of all, thanks for your reply JordanBlock.

My main concern is to record AMBIENCE in stereo, I mentioned the shotgun just coz it would be a cool extra feature, but I want to spend the bucks on ambience (stereo).

Is there anyone with a BP4029 or a BP4025 (or another suggestion under $1000) around?
 
If being fast is crucial and switching between mono and stereo happens a lot in your work, an M/S setup makes most sense. I personally don't lioke X/Y micing and have never done it in 5 years of field recording. I prefer spaced omnis for stereo ambience, but in your case M/S might be a good idea. You could still use your shotgun and get a figure of eight mic to clip onto it.

Now below 1000 $ I know of two options for realtively small 8's: Ambient's Emesser (very small and I suppose great sounding, plus has some accesories such as 5 pin XLR cable whip etc.) costs about 700 Euros. The other, cheaper, a bit bigger, more versatile and very good sounding alternative is the Oktava figure-of-eight adapter. I have that. It cost me 79 Euros. You need an Oktava preamp (89 Euros) and two cardioid capsules (79 Euros each) so that makes a total of 340 Euros. The adapter is pretty wide so it won't fit in any blimp. It does fit in the Rode blimp though, so if you already have one that would work. The advantage of the Oktava stuff is it's incredibly versatile. You get another preamp and there you already have your X/Y kit.

Reputable Oktava dealer in Europe: www.oktava-online.com
Ambient: www.ambient.de
 
To be honest I thought about making an MS setup with Oktavas MK012, as I already have one, so it would be pretty much a matter of buying the 2nd and the capsules, however I haven't found yet audio samples of this setup, and I've read the figure of 8 capsule is too bulky and heavy...

The switching between shotgun and stereo is not a MUST, I can ommit that, I just need a Stereo Mic, I've read MS is better than XY, but I haven't seen someone commenting on the BP4029 yet, however have read pretty good things about the BP4025... hence the doubt. TBH I am about to decide for the BP4029, as it is MS, but I would really want to hear an opinion from someone who has tried it.

Gracias, sonidista ;)
 
M/S VS X/Y is an old chestnut argument in the sound community. Basically some swear by one and others by the other and there has been no hard evidence that I have seen to convince me one is a clear winner. I have both and many/ most "stereo" mics are M/S decoded into L/R.

On the M/S side is the ability to change the spread in the field. BTW any mic that lets you change the spread with out physically reorienting the capsules is an M/S mic.

Recording M/S gives you the supposed advantage of adjusting the spread in post. But actually you can convert from M/S to X/Y and visa versa so you can also adjust the spread of an X/Y pair in post also. M/S also gives you a mono feed, but X/Y gives you two mono feeds so just point the capsule you want at what your recording.
M/S traditionally has been a pain to decode in post since everything had to be run through a box to get stereo. That isn't really an issue anymore so...

X/Y is arguably more flexible (if your using two mics and not a "stereo" mic) since you can break up the pair, or space them differently etc.

A lot of the argument was about which was "more true to life" but that is also pretty bogus since neither is "true to life" over speakers , maybe kinda over headphones. And we are working in fantasy hear anyway. A mic (for FX recording) is all about capturing what YOU want to hear, and has very little to do with any objective "reality".

My "standard" set up for FX recording is two Oktava cardioids in a fairly narrow (probably ~ 30 degrees) X/Y configuration. For FX I like the stronger center coverage. If I were doing a lot of Amb. recording and wanted a really wide stage I would probably separate them and go wider or better yet switch to omni's and go really wide.

M/S, in theory, can't go as wide since it needs some front sound filter the side to generate a L/R image. But practically I don't see much difference.

A "stereo" shotgun is a bit of a contradiction in terms. As such they are more hyper cardioid than shotgun (IMO) and while some are very nice mics the good ones are $$$$$.

The bottom line with a mic is that you really need to find one you can test. If it sounds good to you, buy it. The reality is your not likely to switch the M/S settings much unless you can do it with a remote decoder box because you will need to get it out of the zeppelin to make the change. So in the end it doesn't make that much difference.
 
Thanks a bunch for your comments... You say your setup is a pair of Oktavas... are those Mk012 with cardioid capsules? I really am also thinking about having a pair of Oktavas MK012 in order to have BOTH MS and XY... but haven't found anyone with that setup so I fear I'd do something stupid with my money.
1. How do you handle them for exteriors (wind, humidity, etc...)?
2. How good are they to get very low volume sounds (self noise)?
3. Do you have any samples of stuff you've recorded?
 
jazzman_bcn said:
Thanks a bunch for your comments... You say your setup is a pair of Oktavas... are those Mk012 with cardioid capsules?
Click to expand...
Yes
I really am also thinking about having a pair of Oktavas MK012 in order to have BOTH MS and XY... but haven't found anyone with that setup so I fear I'd do something stupid with my money.
Click to expand...

You would have to use the figure 8 adapter and a second capsule to go M/S and I think the M would probably want to be a Hyper (I could be wrong on that I'm not big on M/S).

1. How do you handle them for exteriors (wind, humidity, etc...)?
Click to expand...

I have them in a zeppelin and I almost always have the low rolled off at around 80Hz. I haven't had any humidity issues.

2. How good are they to get very low volume sounds (self noise)?
Click to expand...

They are very close to the Schoeps, not quite as sensitive but close. A good friend who has done a lot of big budget recording for films used to keep a pair as backups for her Schoeps pair. I have a picture of one on a stand in Boz Skaggs' studio it was a few feet away from gorgeous vintage large condenser.

3. Do you have any samples of stuff you've recorded?
Click to expand...

Mostly SFX in my library but I also use the pair for recording concerts so the samples at www.earplay.org will all have been recorded with them. I can give you a link to some adds, but it's hard to say which had a lot of the Oktava's VS other recordings. What kind of recording did you have in mind? I can probably send you something.
 
jazzman_bcn said:
1. How do you handle them for exteriors (wind, humidity, etc...)?
2. How good are they to get very low volume sounds (self noise)?
3. Do you have any samples of stuff you've recorded?
Click to expand...
1 as Noiz said, zeppelin and you're good. There is a cheap lo cut capsule that removes pretty much all the handlicng noise that comes form a generous frequency response in the low range.
2 careful here. you need good preamps. Sound Devices devices *g* will work well. They are not very hot at all, so they need quite a bit of amplification, not as much as the Schoeps, I'd say, but enough to sound noisy when recording quiet sounds with mediocre preamps. Actually I don't recommend them for very very quiet stuff (like air). What mixer do you use?
3 check this out, a guy form jwsound forum. http://soundgeekproductions.com/blog/?page_id=38
has the M/S setup and has done great nature recordings with it.
here he has some samples listed:
http://soundgeekproductions.com/blog/

de res...
 
Sounds pretty amazing,excepting for the extremely quiet noises...

One las question concerning the Oktava.

I can see that the figure of 8 capsule has inside two cardioid capsules... do they come included when I purchase the figure of 8, or do I also have to buy them?
 
Other than the ad's that I can send you a link to I would need to post something. What kind of sounds would you like to hear? My library is over 1/2 a terabyte.
jazzman_bcn said:
Foley and FX, that's my main aim, not music... do you have some sound samples I could listen to?
Click to expand...
 
jazzman_bcn said:
Sounds pretty amazing,excepting for the extremely quiet noises...

One las question concerning the Oktava.

I can see that the figure of 8 capsule has inside two cardioid capsules... do they come included when I purchase the figure of 8, or do I also have to buy them?
Click to expand...

they're not included. My advice for you to get an MSP 6 (set of two preamps and six capsules) and use that with the figure of eight adaptor.
 
Noiz2 said:
Other than the ad's that I can send you a link to I would need to post something. What kind of sounds would you like to hear? My library is over 1/2 a terabyte.
Click to expand...

Basically quiet ambiences (in stereo, of course)... to see how it deals with noise and low volume sounds.
 
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