Artistry vs technical skill: weighing the importance of both

Doug, let me ask you this, would you rather hire a DP who reads the script and cares about your project but shoots crappy images due to lack of skill, or a DP who doesn't read the script and doesn't care about your project but shoots quality images you're happy with because they know what they're doing?

The thing is, there's often a correlation; the young whippersnapper fresh out of college is thrilled to get on a project and excited by good and bad scripts because it's work and fun, but they're also inexperienced so may shoot low quality images. Meanwhile, the grumpy old DP who's been schlumming it at the same job for 20-40 years and has lost a lot of excitement about it, as well as having developed trends and styles, they may be considerably less excited to read yet another script, as well as not able to act excited about it after having read it, yet, due to their years of experience at their craft, they're still way more talented than the excited young whippersnapper, and would do a much better job as the DP. Some producer/directors would rather have their ego stroked by the whippersnapper, while the more experienced producer/directors will make their choice based on who they think is best qualified for the job.

I'm technically proficient enough to get shots that generally make my clients happy, and to me that's more important than if they got worried for a bit when during the interview I had said I had not read the script yet.

Do I care about other people's projects? Not typically. As a DP I'm there to make quality images to the best of my ability; they're not hiring me to care about their project. I generally don't care much about the project unless I'm producing it, because when the movie is finished, as a DP, it's not my movie, it's just some movie I contributed a small part to, the part of DP. So many things tend to be more important than cinematography on a production, such as script, acting, directing, sound, and producing, that as a DP, your contributions are on the lower end compared to some of those other positions.

A lot of DPs tend to think, "If the script is good, this may be worth my time." But, at least to me, does the quality of the script really make that much difference? Whether the movie turns out good or bad, it's not my movie, so, what difference does it make to me how good or bad the movie turns out? Sure, if it turns out so awesome it wins Academy Awards that's pretty cool and worth bragging about, boosts your career, etc., but at the low level of ultra low budget films, they're not winning Academy Awards, and even if they turn out good, they're maybe getting 1000 views on YouTube, playing at a few film festivals, and then getting forgotten.

I guess I think of it like a plumber who gets hired to do the plumbing for a home that is being built. Now, the main architect and builder of the home may take pride in how the final home turns out, and the plumber may take pride in their plumbing work, but, does the plumber take much pride in the overall quality of the finished home? Does the plumber ask to see the architect's plans for the home, not just to see where the plumbing should go, but also to verify they actually like the floor plans and designs? Or, does the plumber not care about whether or not they personally like the architect's design choices and is there to just do their job, which is installing the plumbing?

What I think it comes down to is, criticize the results, not the methods. My methods of cinematography do not necessarily rely heavily on the script. It's simply, setup lights, setup cameras and lenses, choose shots and lighting that looks interesting to me, and voila, you've got cinematography that is of similar quality to my previous work, the work the client hired me for in the first place. I don't think my work is bad, you can judge for yourself at TwoSenseFilms.com/narrative.

My work is not high level Hollywood, but at this point of my career I don't aspire to be a high level narrative DP.

And if I'm producing a movie I'm DPing, who am I disrespecting if I don't read the script? Myself? Well, I don't mind, I already know I can get results without reading the script which I'll be happy with. And again, to reiterate, I'll typically read the script before filming, just not always, and often not prior to an interview.

You ever film an interview with a teleprompter script without having read the script? I sure have, practically never read those things, particularly if they're long. Turns out, the specifics of the teleprompter script typically has nothing to do with how one would go about shooting the interview. Sure, the client may say they want it to be lit flat or lit dramatically, may send reference images of previous interviews for that shoot, but aside from them saying those guidelines, generally speaking, the teleprompter script is not that relevant to how a DP would typically choose to shoot a teleprompter interview.

Imagine a DP who shoots every movie with a similar look regardless of the differences in stories. They're a talented DP so they're regularly making quality images, but it's the same each time. Whoever hires them gets quality, but not anything unique to that particular DP (while it may be unique to that client since they hadn't worked with them before). Now imagine another DP who constantly molds their choices to the script, they're trying a lot of different things, different filters, lenses, lighting designs, etc. The problem is, with all this experimentation, it can be hit or miss. Some of their work turns out good, other work turns out bad.

Now as a producer, you've narrowed it down to these two choices, the safe DP who constantly does the same look and quality, or the unique DP who takes risks and some fail and some succeed. Who do you hire? Depends, but I think the answer is it could go either way. If you're producing Avengers, Marvel probably doesn't want you to take huge risks when they know the safe choice will definitely make money. But if it's a lower budget indie that is trying to get it's name on the map, perhaps you're more keen to take risks.

I've got to imagine a lot of DPs read scripts but choose to shoot them the same way they would have if they had not read the script. Imagine a Judd Apatow movie or many standard comedies, pretty flat lighting, nothing unique or artsy about them, but they're competent because they hired a legit DP with a full support crew and gear. It may be as simple as, generic lighting, master shot, closeups, and done. You still have to worry about technical aspects like balancing light coming through windows, lens choice, ISO, etc., but, are you really in those scenarios having your decisions heavily affected by the actual script, or are you just making fairly standard content that is competent but nothing special and could be easily handled and setup just by knowing the general idea of the scene at hand?
 
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Id say that on the bigger films Ive been on to know the emotion ot the scene by chatting or getting in the script is important. The feature DPs Ive worked with are usually good at this while I might be 'better' at lighting or whatever.

Conveyance of the story is the DP job. Dont under rate it.

I have under rated the job versus getting done for lunch or not crossing the line or seeing reflections. Crew should really do those elements.

You are describing yourself as a good operator (on a big film not a DP)
 
Conveyance of the story is the DP job. Dont under rate it.
+1 on this. To that whole post, really.

Eric, you keep making the distinction between a technical DP who is proficient and an artistic one who isn't. The two aren't mutually exclusive! Of course the DP's job requires a certain amount of technical understanding or proficiency, but that should be considered a base level for someone being hired onto a job. The question is then, how much does it matter if they are focused on serving the story visually vs just plonking down a camera and turning on some lights?

Frankly a little horrified at the analogy of a DP as a plumber in a narrative setting. There are types of jobs where this is closer to applicable--a by-the-numbers corporate shoot perhaps, where the overall look and feel of the piece can be simply communicated as "clean", "colorful" "keep the camera moving" etc. I've shot jobs like that where I never really needed to dig into the specifics of the script or be concerned much with the words coming out the actor's mouths (sometimes barely comprehensible copy describing a highly technical situation). I've shot commercials for tech products that I didn't understand--I still don't know what this one is, for instance: https://sandwich.co/work/lumos/. Was I a plumber on that job? Possibly. The pipes flushed, everyone was happy.

But for a narrative piece, I feel like I have to understand both what is on the page and inside the director's head to be able to properly tell the story from a visual standpoint. I need to understand the mood of a scene to decide on lighting ratios and camera moves. There is no real place in the homebuilding analogy for what a DP does on a scripted narrative, it's probably more like a co-architect.

As far as figuring it out on the day,/winging it, that can work, especially if one has the ability to carry every other choice that has been made on the project in one's head to ensure proper flow throughout the piece. As a camera operator there were certainly times I didn't read the script ahead of time, just read the sides that day and still had plenty of suggestions to contribute. Much of it has to do with efficiency. When Roger talks about not having a shot list for certain projects, he has more of the luxury of time on his side than any of us here. His sets are not rushed, believe me! So there is time to do what most of us have to do in prep--discuss options, work it through.

The best version of all of this, I think, is entering a project with a solid and structured game plan, and then on the day if a better version presents itself based on unexpected factors, or inspired by the performance, then you call an audible and make a new plan.

What's kind of funny to me about this particularly discussion is that I myself get kind of roll-eye at DP's who get overly florid in the discussion of the filmmaking process. But Eric man, you've taken it to a whole new level...!
 
I guess 'the big film' I was recently visiting must really the artistic thoughts happen in 'pre' because on the day one is making the story board.

If they booked five horses and riders and armour and built the castle 23m long.. then you cant just decide to do a wide. or extend the shot. You are doing what the story board shows!

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COnversly .. Cxxxy Fxxxxwe was the DP of Pxxxxark.

She would eat you if you asked what a Vlock was. She has people for that.. she is sitting at the monitor wanting a little more rembrant or a little less haze.

To some extent her abstraction from the technical process is genius because we slap ourselfves on the back when the 85/2 moving shot is sharp. She only thinks if it is relevant to the stroy.

She need to to hire eric to run the plumbing of the camera department!
 
I'm enjoying this discussion, and just wanted to mention a (perhaps) apt comparison from the world of sculpture.

A few years ago I was in Carrara, Italy, visiting a stone carving studio and the quarries (for those unfamiliar: Carrara is famous for its marble, and has been so since antiquity). The stone carving studio was very much a modern, industrial endeavor, though with full-time sculptors who still carved by hand in addition to some automated carving machines.

My friend (who'd worked with the studio over the years) introduced me to one of the carvers and afterwards said the guy—despite being an absolutely top-notch marble carver—very much thought of himself as a craftsman, rather than a sculptor or artist. I recall him saying the guy pretty rejected the more artistic label, even though he could likely carve with the best sculptors in the world. But for him the artistry was in the idea, which he then executed.

I spent a couple days at the studio learning the absolute basics of marble carving, and the irony is that this experience made me think that as just much artistry is in the technical execution! But perhaps I'd feel different after a couple decades of carving, when the sort of nuanced decisions about where to place the chisel and how to use the mallet would become second nature.

Anyway, I feel like in DP'ing it's easier than ever to get like 90% of the way on very limited technical knowledge these days, given how forgiving cameras are. But that 90% is just enough to make you look as good as pretty much everybody else. Excelling in either artistry or technical acumen is probably what will help you stand out. And to bring it full circle to sculpture, someone like Jago is able to stand out precisely because he seems to have both under control.
 
Eric, you keep making the distinction between a technical DP who is proficient and an artistic one who isn't. The two aren't mutually exclusive! Of course the DP's job requires a certain amount of technical understanding or proficiency, but that should be considered a base level for someone being hired onto a job. The question is then, how much does it matter if they are focused on serving the story visually vs just plonking down a camera and turning on some lights?

You're looking for a certain way of thinking that aligns with yours, the nebula between an uncertain base level of technical proficiency and a less than overabundance of florid film making speak. I agree with Eric, you sink or swim based on results and you trust the person with the track record to do the job. He wins some and loses others but I'll take that guy.
 
I think most things are a venn diagram.

In this case there are factors..

artistic brilliance
technical competence
understanding of budget
ability to smooze.

And all of us will find our way in the world if we can find a winning formula (ratio of each) that works for our business (or pleasure)

And that is the trouble of such discussions on a forum. Becuase we are all looking for our own sweet spot.

And why fora may be better for disussing the latency of a certain monitoring app... hard truths.
 
Here's another wrinkle: the need for a DP to have a sensibility that leans into story or not is also dependent on how much the director wants or needs them to. Some directors have a strong sense of what they are looking for visually, they come to the table with a fully realized shooting plan, and possibly a lighting style and color scheme. While that may sound like "OK well then the DP is just a glorified operator/gaffer", that isn't necessarily the case, there is still plenty of room for discussion and craft even with those aspects covered.

As you can imagine, when I direct I build my own shotlist and present it to the DP once we get going. And we will talk through the lighting approach to make sure we are on the same track. Once I feel that we are speaking the same language, I leave it to the DP to work out the how and whys to achieve it. Doesn't matter to me the specifics of the gear they want to use as long as iis efficient and achieves what we discuss. But that said, I like it when a collaborator pitches me on another way to approach something. II may accept it or reject it, but I'll definitely consider it. I like to see my crew engaged and thinking. I have a regular camera operator who will come up to me and point out a logic issue within a given scene as it relates to a previous scene, and I'll take it to the director like wow, we both missed this...and make sure my operator gets credit. This is proof he is engaged and not just phoning it in (literally, these days).

It's particularly interesting for me working with Steadicam operators. A Steadicam is a tool but it's also an instrument, much closer to a sax than a bandsaw. A Steadicam operator can make dozens of simultaneous decisions in framing that can ultimately contribute significantly to the rhythm and success of a given shot. There are plenty of technically proficient operators out there who are essentially remote heads--they wait to be told what to do and they robotically execute the shot. But the ones I like to work with approach it the way I did; each shot has its own rhythm and can contribute to the tone and flow of the piece in a very specific way. Often that means working with the actors to achieve these results. Once again this blurs the line between craft and art, but if one is to relate it back to music--is an amazing jazz sax solo art, or craft?

Point being: what is the person who hires us looking for? A creative collaborator, or a technician? And how to read the tea leaves to determine this?
 
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As a DP I'm there to make quality images to the best of my ability; they're not hiring me to care about their project.
Care is a pretty broad term. You can care about a project for selfish reasons rather than how it fares for someone else. I don't see how the best of your ability can come without caring. If all else is equal, only caring Eric can deliver the best work. Maybe it's more like you don't care about the end results and the work's life beyond production? Isn't you applying what you think is the best method for shooting a version of caring? Or I guess your historic passion means at one point you cared about the craft overall, but genuinely have a neutral response now. I think your view is fair, I just disagree that the best work happens without caring.

I agree with many of your sentiments though. It's always bothered me that DPs accept praise for cool projects in one breath, while disowning uncool projects in the next. To me if you're going to ride on the coat tails of creative aspects you had nothing to do with, you can't have it both ways, where you embrace the fun ones but distance yourself from the less exciting work.

I completely get not wanting to work on other people's projects too, especially at a low budget/indy level. I haven't once been hired by a Director for ANYTHING (I've filled in for others but not the same), so my strike rate of choosing cool narrative projects to work on is even worse than yours! At this point instead of waiting around, I'm finding more work as a Director, where I can either Director/DP or hire someone else to shoot. It's just funny that the path to work on larger DP projects could come from landing work in a different role. Later this year though I might be shooting a few episodes of a comedy series, which will be the first time working in an actual narrative environment - I wonder how I'll feel after. But it sounds like you're essentially backing yourself as a Director or Producer to make better films in the low budget/independent space than other people in this area, which I think is a great idea. Would a lifetime of shooting technically great looking, but awfully rated films give a sense of fulfilment? I have no idea, but I can see why Charles wants to only shoot projects he's aligned with and despite increasing the likelihood to get in front of better quality material, I'm sure the non-guarantee element of it all is still frustrating.

If you said yes to every narrative film, with dozens of decent looking samples, surely from here you could keep levelling up to the point where you're considering higher quality scripts and getting paid more? Have you thought about that or you don't think it'd work?

We're not really discussing the original topic anymore, hopefully we can get back on track soon!
 
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What sounds better to a DP, working with an acclaimed director who is known for their generic cinematography (perhaps they mostly direct comedy) and most of their movies turn out good or great, or working with a not acclaimed director who challenges the cinematographer to create unique images and cinematography?

I suppose this is just rephrasing as Rob asked, "Would a lifetime of shooting technically great looking, but awfully rated films give a sense of fulfilment?"


Rob, you can care about cinematography and your job while not caring about the project as a whole. A Walmart employee may care about their job, but do they typically care about whether Walmart as a whole grosses 1 billion or 2 billion on a given day? I wasn't really saying that the best work occurs without caring; I was saying that a young inexperienced person will often have more outward excitement about getting a cinematography job than someone who has been doing it for 30 years. The 30 year veteran may still very much enjoy their job, but if it's just another typical job they're getting booked for they're probably not jumping up and down in excitement and calling their mommy about it.

Another sometimes annoying question, or perhaps not the question so much as the response to the answer is, "Are you interested in working on this project?" I say, "Yes." There's a pause. It appears they want to hear more. Maybe I add a bit more, maybe not, but, they seem to want to hear how thrilled I am to be a part of this. And to me it's just another job, doesn't necessarily mean I can't enjoy the job, but if they don't book me, someone else will, so either way I'm working and the someone else may actually have a more interesting job, so why should I be gushing excitement about this client's particular job? I feel there can be a certain audacity for the client to assume their particular job is going to be more exciting than any other offers you may get.


If you said yes to every narrative film, with dozens of decent looking samples, surely from here you could keep levelling up to the point where you're considering higher quality scripts and getting paid more? Have you thought about that or you don't think it'd work?
For sure. You basically need to take a pay cut from the better paying (per day) corporate work to do a bunch of lower budget narratives, build up your reel, experience, contacts, get on higher budget narratives, and if you succeed really well, you could eventually make more money than top corporate DPs, though the competition at the top is much more than in the corporate world, so your chances of that level of success are lower. I can't say I ever fully pursued that path since I mostly turned down lower budget films while just doing rare ones, along with my own movies. I guess focusing on narrative freelance DPing was never enough of a priority, and as time wore on and I got bored with freelance DPing in general, it's not really any priority at this point. At the top, it may be super cool to DP a project for Spielberg or Tarentino, but the idea of uprooting my home life for 3-6 months of shooting long hours day after day in some random location of the world while taking orders from a boss (the director) in order to contribute to their project that is not my project, doesn't necessarily sound that much fun to me.
 
+1 on this. To that whole post, really.

Eric, you keep making the distinction between a technical DP who is proficient and an artistic one who isn't. The two aren't mutually exclusive! Of course the DP's job requires a certain amount of technical understanding or proficiency, but that should be considered a base level for someone being hired onto a job. The question is then, how much does it matter if they are focused on serving the story visually vs just plonking down a camera and turning on some lights?

Frankly a little horrified at the analogy of a DP as a plumber in a narrative setting. There are types of jobs where this is closer to applicable--a by-the-numbers corporate shoot perhaps, where the overall look and feel of the piece can be simply communicated as "clean", "colorful" "keep the camera moving" etc. I've shot jobs like that where I never really needed to dig into the specifics of the script or be concerned much with the words coming out the actor's mouths (sometimes barely comprehensible copy describing a highly technical situation). I've shot commercials for tech products that I didn't understand--I still don't know what this one is, for instance: https://sandwich.co/work/lumos/. Was I a plumber on that job? Possibly. The pipes flushed, everyone was happy.

But for a narrative piece, I feel like I have to understand both what is on the page and inside the director's head to be able to properly tell the story from a visual standpoint. I need to understand the mood of a scene to decide on lighting ratios and camera moves. There is no real place in the homebuilding analogy for what a DP does on a scripted narrative, it's probably more like a co-architect.

As far as figuring it out on the day,/winging it, that can work, especially if one has the ability to carry every other choice that has been made on the project in one's head to ensure proper flow throughout the piece. As a camera operator there were certainly times I didn't read the script ahead of time, just read the sides that day and still had plenty of suggestions to contribute. Much of it has to do with efficiency. When Roger talks about not having a shot list for certain projects, he has more of the luxury of time on his side than any of us here. His sets are not rushed, believe me! So there is time to do what most of us have to do in prep--discuss options, work it through.

The best version of all of this, I think, is entering a project with a solid and structured game plan, and then on the day if a better version presents itself based on unexpected factors, or inspired by the performance, then you call an audible and make a new plan.

What's kind of funny to me about this particularly discussion is that I myself get kind of roll-eye at DP's who get overly florid in the discussion of the filmmaking process. But Eric man, you've taken it to a whole new level...!
I wasn't saying they're mutually exclusive nor am I putting down DP's who heavily lean on the script to guide their choices. I was more saying there are different approaches to cinematography, that results are most of what matters, and that it's ironic when a DP who gets worse results gets hired simply because they sounded cool during an interview where they threw out ideas on how the script shapes their vision for the cinematography.

A DP who never reads scripts can still be a better DP than other DPs who don't read scripts. Roger Deakins DPing a movie he hasn't read a script for will do better than Billy Bob who is 14 and just read the script.

Time management is always a thing, and one could choose to spend their time learning the technical, or spend their time learning film theory and different abstract ways to combine cinematography with themes, meaning, etc. Of course one could study both, but it's up to each person to choose how much effort they'll put into one thing vs the other. I recall a conversation on DVXuser between Abe and I think Doug regarding interpreting meaning from films, and Abe would easily get meaning from lots of things while Doug leaned towards thinking many things didn't have particular meanings. Film theory classes in college are always going over all these ideas, assuming it was the director's intention, and perhaps in many cases it was, but in other cases, it wasn't, and people who studied the films wrongly drew false conclusions about the meaning of something. Perhaps the director choose a certain color because he thought it was cool, and not because he drew a correlation based on some themes. Some directors like abstract, hidden meanings, subtle themes, while others are very clear cut and straightforward. I wouldn't necessarily say one method is better than another as they are both viable.

I like to compare the cinematography of 1917 to the cinematography of Saving Private Ryan. Deakins won the Academy Award for 1917, but I didn't think the cinematography was that good. Sure, from a technical perspective it was, but from a story perspective, it felt like a gimmick, the directing, blocking, and script resulted in the one take style dragging on, with lots of slow boring points, in a movie that was often boring. Birdman did the one take much better, but that heavily comes down to directing as the characters, dialog, pacing, blocking, etc., was much better. Speaking of immersiveness and realism, the documentary style of Saving Private Ryan I thought was way more effective than than 1917's gimicky cinematography.

One of the reasons I don't feel the script is super important to the DP is because the DP generally just needs the general idea of the scene to do their job. Do they need to be super familiar with every line of dialog? Generally not. But they should know what's generally happening in the scene. They'll also often see it all in front of them during rehearsals.

Consider in college when you can choose to read an entire book or just read the (cliff) notes; some people still get A's without reading the books because they had good notes, while others read the entire book the test is on. If they're learning and getting A's, then was reading the entire book really necessary?

Again it's going to sound like I'm advocating not reading the scripts prior to filming which I am not doing, but I am saying that one can still do a good job DPing a project without reading the script.

I may also be using the word "technical" rather broadly here. Base technical knowledge is something most legit DPs will have, but it's how they use that technical knowledge that can raise the bar from generic to highly artistic and higher quality. Anyone can know how to turn on lights, but talent comes in knowing where to place them with what colors and what diffusion.

Consider an exercise where there is no story, and 10 DPs are tasked with filming a scene of a man sleeping. There is no script, no story, no themes, etc. Each DP comes up with different ways of filming it, and some are better than others. But in this scenario, no one is using a script to guide their choices, since there is no script. It's not necessarily just technical mastery at play here, but a talent for knowing what looks good and what doesn't, and how to achieve something that looks good. Perhaps to some extent, though, I consider that technical as it's basically using your technical knowledge and combining it with various ideas (blue lighting, haze, filters, vibrating camera, etc.) and tools to create something of quality. When you know all the technical aspects, you can combine it all to create good images.

For myself, on corporate shoots setting up an interview, I've largely become pretty standardized with my setup aside from when a client requests something different. But either way, I have a lot of confidence with it, as it's mostly three point lighting and very straightforward, and the angles are often the same as well. But with narrative work when it comes to filming a scene, there's a million different ways you can do it, which leads me to a sort of lack of confidence, as I know there is no one right answer. A director may ask me, "How will you film this scene?" And I'll think or sometimes say, "I don't know. Guess I'll figure it out." Not very confidence inspiring for the director. And then as I'm figuring it out I sometimes feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, but, I also know I have a considerable knowledge of cinematography, ideas, etc., which will generally result in me combining the knowledge I do have to craft the shot, with the result often ending up being something the director is happy with. Basically, there is no one right answer, which is why there is a feeling of, "How can I get the right answer?," but there is enough skill and knowledge to still do a competent or good job.

I think we've talked of it before (and actually a lot of this topic), but compensation for pre-production is an issue too. Super low budget movies often do not offer any compensation for pre-production planning, which makes one less financially motivated to do it. You also don't need as much pre-pro to decide what equipment is needed because the answer is often, the equipment you already own which fits in your vehicle.
 
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As the guard slept I tried to undo the handcuffs and sneak away.

After the third bong session the world span and I settled into a 10 hour coma.

--

How can the DP direct the 'man sleeps' shot without knowing the script?
 
Would a lifetime of shooting technically great looking, but awfully rated films give a sense of fulfilment?
To illustrate that point, here's a pair of review from my first two features.

Variety, March 1997
…the cinematography allows the film’s look to far surpass the circumstances of its production. Cinematographer Charles Papert provides a crisp, clean look throughout, with light changing throughout the afternoon and evening. “Last Night at Eddie’s” may play as if it was conceived in a broken-down rest room, but it looks like a million bucks.

Roger Ebert, May 2009
It is well-crafted, I grant you that. The cinematography contains fine compositions, looking down steeply on angled shadows and seeking down lost corridors…But what in god’s name is it about?

Unsurprisingly, these were not successful and did basically nothing for my career. I learned a few things along the way, and it was nice to get that brief recognition in the trades but ultimately it pushed me away from doing low budget features unless I felt the script was worthwhile. Which basically hasn't happened since.
 
The reviews are hilarious (now), you completely saved the day. That's so cool you had work critiqued by Roger Ebert. He's like nice try getting Charles involved but I still have a job to do.

I wonder if people shooting the best films know how statistically rare it is to be in their position.
 
What sounds better to a DP, working with an acclaimed director who is known for their generic cinematography (perhaps they mostly direct comedy) and most of their movies turn out good or great, or working with a not acclaimed director who challenges the cinematographer to create unique images and cinematography?
I don't know. The acclaimed director could be a better stepping stone to an even bigger version of the challenging cinematography you mention the not acclaimed director would be looking for.
Rob, you can care about cinematography and your job while not caring about the project as a whole. A Walmart employee may care about their job, but do they typically care about whether Walmart as a whole grosses 1 billion or 2 billion on a given day?
Haha your examples are entertaining but they hardly seem fair. Walmart employee might not GAF about the company's earnings but a film would be the local Walmart where they work, in which case I'd say a lot of employees care about the store.

Can you attach an insta 360 camera to your next shoot and share BTS recording? I'd love to see how Eric operates on set! Or screen record a reluctant free video call?
 
Haha your examples are entertaining but they hardly seem fair. Walmart employee might not GAF about the company's earnings but a film would be the local Walmart where they work, in which case I'd say a lot of employees care about the store.

If you told the average Walmart employee that the Walmart store they work in could make 5 million or 10 million (if they worked harder) of profit for that given year, and either way they would still have a job and still get paid the same, I don't feel the average Walmart employee would care much whether that store made 5 million or 10 million. DPs very rarely make backend or residuals from movies.
 
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If you told the average Walmart employee that the Walmart store they work in could make 5 million or 10 million (if they worked harder) of profit for that given year, and either way they would still have a job and still get paid the same, I don't feel the average Walmart employee would care much whether that store made 5 million or 10 million. DPs very rarely make backend or residuals from movies.
This is what I mean, you are just making up adverse conditions for one part of your either/or hypotheticals to make the other part look stronger. There are no scenarios where employees at a Walmart get to dial in their pay based on effort. How does the question help? If you asked a Walmart employee if they'd rather their store see more success or less success they'd go with more. Or if they want to move to another Walmart, which more closely resembles freelance work in the film industry moving from project to project, rather than being bound to a single company, it looks better coming from a more successful film.

What's with the A/B categorisation when you know there's more to it? The talentless art-heavy air head vs. the technically savvy shooter. It goes without saying that the incompetent person isn't as good as the other option - your "would you rathers?" aren't helpful.
 
The only point is that you can work on a project while caring about your own job and how well you do at it while not caring about the project as a whole. This applies to any job. Some people care about more than just their job and also care about the project or company as a whole and others do not. I fall into the do not care about the project as a whole for the most part unless it's my own project camp, especially if it's a paid job and not a job with friends. Especially in the low budget world where 95% of projects you work on are going to turn out bad regardless, it's even more difficult to care about a movie that is going to be bad.

Still does not mean I won't do a good job or put a good effort into it, and I expect a producer/client to understand that I can still do a good job without caring about their baby such that they don't need to shove baby photos in my face.




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