Ted Spencer
Veteran
Seriously...what the f is it with NJ? It's like our very own Uganda...
Article about my film getting rejected by Hoboken Film Festival
- Thread starter Frank Perrotto
- Start date
DadinWestchester
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads up.
Frank Perrotto
Active member
I agree that I should have worded the title to this thread differently. It was a bit sensationalistic or attention grabbing, but honestly, that wasn't what I was thinking. I didn't think at all, really, but I definitely should have. Not to worry... I won't be posting it anywhere else! Lesson learned...
I disagree that I was whiney about it, however. If you read the email to the guy, I tiptoed around the issue as much as possible, but deep down, I was feeling exactly what turned out to be true - Del Vecchio uses the festival as his own personal screening facility every year. I did not write the article, the owner of the site did. He presented me with the idea of doing the side-by-sides of the trailers and if... ahem... O.B.A.M. Nude were even remotely decent, I'd have never mentioned it in the email. It seemed to both of us that this one was so blatantly obvious not because mine was great, but because his was so God-awful bad. I was not consulted on the other content of the article, just whether or not he could use my original email and the side-by-side. Frankly, that's his business, and anyone who thinks they're going to run everything by you before writing about you or your film needs to find another line of work.
And if the film were made by the programmer's cousin or nephew or whomever, it wouldn't really be an issue. I still disagree with that kind of nepotism in festivals, but it's something totally different when it's the guy who runs it vs. just somebody who is friends/family with the staff, where it turns into shades of gray. I'd still like to know about festivals where that takes place, in order to avoid them, but how do we know if we don't get this stuff out in the open and talk to each other about it? Yes, you should do your research... I just did my research and my verdict is don't send your money or your film to the Hoboken Film festival. I hope similar things don't go on elsewhere, but apparently they do, as some have suggested this isn't an isolated incident.
I should also point out that this discussion on festivals and the legitimacy of programming is happening elsewhere on the web, in a much whinier fashion than on here, and I'm behind them 100%. I think that with so many festivals and so many films getting made, they're not always serving the interests of filmmakers and of getting the best films to the fore. Apparently saying so can be bad for your reputation, and I think that's really sad.
I disagree that I was whiney about it, however. If you read the email to the guy, I tiptoed around the issue as much as possible, but deep down, I was feeling exactly what turned out to be true - Del Vecchio uses the festival as his own personal screening facility every year. I did not write the article, the owner of the site did. He presented me with the idea of doing the side-by-sides of the trailers and if... ahem... O.B.A.M. Nude were even remotely decent, I'd have never mentioned it in the email. It seemed to both of us that this one was so blatantly obvious not because mine was great, but because his was so God-awful bad. I was not consulted on the other content of the article, just whether or not he could use my original email and the side-by-side. Frankly, that's his business, and anyone who thinks they're going to run everything by you before writing about you or your film needs to find another line of work.
And if the film were made by the programmer's cousin or nephew or whomever, it wouldn't really be an issue. I still disagree with that kind of nepotism in festivals, but it's something totally different when it's the guy who runs it vs. just somebody who is friends/family with the staff, where it turns into shades of gray. I'd still like to know about festivals where that takes place, in order to avoid them, but how do we know if we don't get this stuff out in the open and talk to each other about it? Yes, you should do your research... I just did my research and my verdict is don't send your money or your film to the Hoboken Film festival. I hope similar things don't go on elsewhere, but apparently they do, as some have suggested this isn't an isolated incident.
I should also point out that this discussion on festivals and the legitimacy of programming is happening elsewhere on the web, in a much whinier fashion than on here, and I'm behind them 100%. I think that with so many festivals and so many films getting made, they're not always serving the interests of filmmakers and of getting the best films to the fore. Apparently saying so can be bad for your reputation, and I think that's really sad.
Frank, personally I agree with you. This festival seems to be BS and we should definitely work to expose that. The problem is that about 2/3 of that article is just quoting directly from your email so people reading it automatically thinks that it's an opinion piece written by a disgruntled applicant. Criticisms seems more valid when they come from a neutral party, and I think it does you and your argument a disservice to have it be presented this way, as the festival organizers can simply say: "He was rejected from the festival so of course he's going to be pissed off."
Frank Perrotto
Active member
If I had never posted it here, that wouldn't be the case. My only regret is not only couching it the way I did on here, but posting it here at all. Most people who had read it and either emailed me or Perry, the owner of the site, were happy to see it put the way that it was. There were other filmmakers that actually took it upon themselves to contact him regarding the selection process and emailed me with stories about how it went down and what a dickhead the guy is. And Hoboken411 is not known for decorum and/or passive-aggressiveness on their boards... I was ready to be throttled, regardless of how bad his trailer looked, because people don't often listen to reason but I was pleasantly surprised by the reaction. It was only when I posted it here that I started hearing ****. But let me state one last time... I DID NOT WRITE THE ARTICLE. I didn't even think, "Hey, I should tell him to cut out the email, I should do this, I should do that." Having said that, it probably would have been a good idea to remove the email entirely to make it more neutral. But then, I don't think it would have had the same impact or that anyone really would have cared as much without the email or the interactive 'you decide' trailer wars aspect of it.
I also have to ask, what neutral party cares about the podunk film festivals we're sending our $40-$75 and a DVD to, other than us filmmakers? Who is going to make sure these things are on the up and up besides us? Newspaper and news sources only care if they can sensationalize something or make it about a particular person or film.
I also have to ask, what neutral party cares about the podunk film festivals we're sending our $40-$75 and a DVD to, other than us filmmakers? Who is going to make sure these things are on the up and up besides us? Newspaper and news sources only care if they can sensationalize something or make it about a particular person or film.
Not to rehash an old thread, but my film (DRAWING WITH CHALK) got accepted to this years Hoboken International Film Festival (and I have no connections to anyone in the festival; in fact the person who first screened the film for the festival posted a review on iMDB). God knows I've been rejected by many festivals and I know the feeling (and I've seen some films that have been chosen over mine and I wonder...) and it's very easy to get disgusted. I will reserve judgement (I've been in very good festivals and some not-so-good festivals). Time will tell what the HIFF has in store for me and I'll let everyone know how it was.
Todd
Todd
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
I had never even heard of this festival before this thread, the Hobobumfart Festival or whatever it is called 
I've heard all kinds of hilariously egregious ethical violations on the part of festival programmers. I've even heard of a festival (and this wasn't hearsay, I saw the proof) where the programmer put his own film in the festival, then awarded himself the Grand Jury Prize for his own film in the festival and accepted it at the awards ceremony. That's almost so bad and so funny that you gotta respect the guy, those are BIG cajones!
I've heard all kinds of hilariously egregious ethical violations on the part of festival programmers. I've even heard of a festival (and this wasn't hearsay, I saw the proof) where the programmer put his own film in the festival, then awarded himself the Grand Jury Prize for his own film in the festival and accepted it at the awards ceremony. That's almost so bad and so funny that you gotta respect the guy, those are BIG cajones!
I've heard all kinds of hilariously egregious ethical violations on the part of festival programmers. I've even heard of a festival (and this wasn't hearsay, I saw the proof) where the programmer put his own film in the festival, then awarded himself the Grand Jury Prize for his own film in the festival and accepted it at the awards ceremony. That's almost so bad and so funny that you gotta respect the guy, those are BIG cajones!
Now there's a plot for a movie to submit to a festival!
Michael
When the film festival has the same name as the production company that produced many of the films that are in the same festival, maybe you might want to skip the submission. I saw this at a film festival in the midwest recently. At least these films weren't in the competition section. Why not just stick your film in a few theatres if your film is so great instead of getting control of a festival ? What else is rich is filmakers bragging to the naive about getting into a major pay to play festival that accepts everybody for a steep entrance fee. Its a little bit like bragging about sleeping with you friends grandmother and than showing some polaroids around. As the Anchorman would say "stay classy".
Yes and no. If the filmmaking community is aware of a programmer who isn't operating above-board, they have the leverage to bring the whole thing down. By simply not providing content to the festival, the festival will eventually wither and cease to exist.
The independent community is small, but exposure works two ways.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
the worst offender of recent memory -- the Queens Int'l Film Festival -- has had their reputation obliterated. Sadly, you'll notice they are still taking submissions from unsuspecting filmmakers to fund another festival.
I had never even heard of this festival before this thread, the Hobobumfart Festival or whatever it is called
I've heard all kinds of hilariously egregious ethical violations on the part of festival programmers. I've even heard of a festival (and this wasn't hearsay, I saw the proof) where the programmer put his own film in the festival, then awarded himself the Grand Jury Prize for his own film in the festival and accepted it at the awards ceremony. That's almost so bad and so funny that you gotta respect the guy, those are BIG cajones!
YES! That exact thing happened in the documentary OFFICIAL REJECTION!
I've spent a lot of money this past year on festival submissions (and some I wish I hadn't). I knew someone who played at the Hoboken International Film Festival last year and had many good things to say about it. Is it shady? So far they've been pretty good to me.
By far the best experience I've had was at the Phoenix Film Festival (I highly recommend this festival); great staff and outstanding support for your film. Several others were very good as well including the Newport Beach Film Festival.
Seriously, watch the doc. OFFICIAL REJECTION (some of the things that happened to the filmmakers will make you laugh and make you angry at the same time). Sometimes (in a room full of rejection emails) just getting into a festival makes you feel good (even if the festival isn't any good). Getting into festivals can be tough (even some of the BS ones), but not getting into any is tougher.
Of course it seems festivals can be a necessary evil for indie filmmakers. We need them and they know that. And lets not even get into the fees (I 'donated' $100 to Sundance last year)... Bruce Fletcher (the programmer for the Idaho International Film Festival) never charges a submission fee. He calls these fees "a tax on bad filmmaking". Heck, just look around Netflix in the indie section. Some posters have laurels from festivals I've never heard of (but in a way that gives the film 'credibility' to those who don't know better). Sorry for the long post (trust me, if I REALLY got into it the post could go on for days!)
Todd
By far the best experience I've had was at the Phoenix Film Festival (I highly recommend this festival); great staff and outstanding support for your film. Several others were very good as well including the Newport Beach Film Festival.
Seriously, watch the doc. OFFICIAL REJECTION (some of the things that happened to the filmmakers will make you laugh and make you angry at the same time). Sometimes (in a room full of rejection emails) just getting into a festival makes you feel good (even if the festival isn't any good). Getting into festivals can be tough (even some of the BS ones), but not getting into any is tougher.
Of course it seems festivals can be a necessary evil for indie filmmakers. We need them and they know that. And lets not even get into the fees (I 'donated' $100 to Sundance last year)... Bruce Fletcher (the programmer for the Idaho International Film Festival) never charges a submission fee. He calls these fees "a tax on bad filmmaking". Heck, just look around Netflix in the indie section. Some posters have laurels from festivals I've never heard of (but in a way that gives the film 'credibility' to those who don't know better). Sorry for the long post (trust me, if I REALLY got into it the post could go on for days!)
Todd
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
My thing is I probably won't be making another short film unless at some point in the future I'm just bored and have some extra money, which seems unlikely. I'd rather put the money into a feature. So that being said, and I don't mean this in a snobby way, but my standards for where I send a feature are a LOT higher. I had no problems at all sending my music videos and short film anywhere that read well, like, "Ok, sounds like a solid enough festival, they accept my type of work, I like what they wrote, sure I'll give them $25!" Or whatever the entry fee was. Because once your premiere status is gone, who really cares, it's sometimes worth it to get that extra laurel even if nobody has heard of it. But when it comes to a feature, and again not to sound cocky, it's a PRIVILEGE for them to be ALLOWED to play my movie, and no festival is going to get that privilege unless it makes sense to us. So it had better be a very good festival, and that doesn't mean an A-level festival, it just means a well run, good, mid-level festival that I respect, something like Eugene International is a fantastic example of a quality festival that has a good reputation and fantastic service. In general, however, regional festivals are a worry and ones I would avoid. They are more for the benefit of their communities, and a big "hey look we got the mayor of some small town here and a bunch of films, we're so cool" than any sort of real use to filmmakers. I've yet to have one really good experience with a regional festival.
Some of my favorites were Dances With Films, of course a fantastic top level festival, Action On Film has always been amazing to me and the organizers are really cool people, Eugene is great, and there were a few others that were ok.
I'd just be really careful where you send your work, but especially if it's a feature because that is a marketable product.
Some of my favorites were Dances With Films, of course a fantastic top level festival, Action On Film has always been amazing to me and the organizers are really cool people, Eugene is great, and there were a few others that were ok.
I'd just be really careful where you send your work, but especially if it's a feature because that is a marketable product.
I fully agree and we did try that route. Unfortunately those festivals passed on the film (we were notified we were in the final round for Dances With Films). I think the problem is once all those rejections pour in you start doubting your film and even though I have a thick skin, it starts to wear you down (and rejections have no reflection on the quality of a project.... to a point). Not to pat my own back, but I've been to several decent festivals and have been approached by staff and movie goers with the same question "Why didn't you play Sundance? I went last year and your film was much better than some that I saw there." Great. Does it make me feel better? I know those are only opinions, but I'm smart enough to know many more factors go into getting into the majors and that just having a good film doesn't really work anymore. Ironically we were roughly 6% acceptance rate when we started and once we premiered we've been on an 85% acceptance rate (even though our premiere status was gone). Hell, 2 of the last 3 festivals we played at were huge and by far the best experience we've had yet (and the most rewarding).
The last festival we were at we were approached by a distributor, we had inquiry about retaining a producer's rep, I even hand delivered a copy to Hallmark because of a request. I've also played at some not so great festivals that really were a waste of money. However, even those festivals gave us a chance to make contacts that have been very beneficial.
AND YES I AGREE!!! It is a privilege that they are given a chance to show our film. This film was a feature (I never made a film before) and I guarded it carefully. The film isn't edgy enough or cutting edge or whatever you call it now to get us noticed by the top tier festivals (and we don't have any stars, etc.). It's a pretty simple story that is competently told. But how many films out there are like this? Probably many. And to be honest, nobody is interested in seeing me walk down the red carpet (Philip Seymour Hoffman.... yes). Top festivals are a business now (and look at the numbers... BIG business). They need the major studio indies and occasionally one of us will be accepted into the club but I think it's wise to make sure everyone is prepared for those rounds of rejections from the top tier. I spoke with a filmmaker last year who was really impressed with my film and started to call me to ask me questions. He was positive his film was going to get into Sundance (he even asked me if he got into both Sundance and Slamdance what festival should he choose). Sadly I had to remind him not to get his hopes up and to be realistic. Was his film great? I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment. I guess the point to this long winded post is that I do think you should hold out and premiere at a quality festival. But what if they never come?
What was the question again?
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Well, that's true, and that part is tough. Also some festivals I just kind of sneer at because they disgust me. Look at the films that just did well at Tribeca -- not a one of them is something anyone would actually watch outside of the film elite. It's ALWAYS some obscure thing about "opening moviegoers' eyes to new experiences," which inevitably means some weird political or social issue that most people just groan at hearing. I read the descriptions, they may be great films, or they may not be, but it's still snobbery to the highest degree. A film that is excellent at what it is should be able to take a top award, or should at least be considered for selection. Take a film like Wedding Crashers, ok it's not a miraculous social commentary or political allegory, it doesn't "express the human experience in profound new ways" or anything like that. But it is one of the greatest comedies of the past 20 years, and that makes it every bit as good as ANY dramatic film with a "deeper message," in my opinion. Different films for different tastes and for different nights.
I graduated with a philosophy degree, I come from a background in film criticism and film history, I of all people certainly appreciate a deep, meaningful, interesting film! I LOVE them. But not EVERY movie should be that! Film is also entertainment and it also has the ability after a long, hard day to pop in a truly well made comedy or action film or genre picture and put a smile on your face and make you think life is going to be ok after all. If that isn't meaningful, if that isn't a big part of why we make movies, then I don't know what is! Like you said, maybe your film isn't edgy enough or cutting edge enough or whatever, but that shouldn't be ALL that matters. With some of the top festivals, it is.
I think Sundance is less pretentious actually, and I think Cannes is a lot less pretentious, somehow, they both seem to value commercialism as well as art. I appreciate that.
The feature I'm about to direct is a comedy, but it is also a good social satire and does have a philosophical element to it. Yet at the same time, you just know it's not a Sundance film, because it's not a $5 million movie, it doesn't have any major stars (hopefully we secure a few names, we're working on it), and it isn't directed by a famous actor or something like that. I still believe it's going to be a very good movie, so yes, I want it to play at least respectable festivals. Mainly, though, I suppose I could care less about that as long as I'm happy with it and we find distribution. If we got distribution with Lion's Gate, for instance, and they said we couldn't send it to any festivals, I'd still be like yeah alright whatever. I'm not a festival guy, I did that with my music videos and my short, I submitted three works, I've been selected 39 times and everything I've done has won at least at one festival. So I love that, it's fun, but it's not everything.
Rejections are super random, though, just like you said. My short film premiered at Dances With Films, it was 1/1, that was a huge premiere, a dream come true to be honest, because any time you make a short, it's your first professional effort (yes, I had made like 8 student shorts before but fortunately nobody ever saw them! LOL), and it premieres in Hollywood a few blocks from the DGA at a great theater like the Sunset 5, you feel good about it. Especially a festival where Hollywood agents and talent scouts do attend. Then we were nominated for 3 awards at Action On Film (Best Comedy - Short, Best Produced Screenplay - Short, and Best Cinematography - Short), and ended up winning Best Short Short Comedy at Eugene. The film went to 13 festivals, a very respectable number, and the premiere plus the award win was, to me, enough to be completely satisfied no matter what else happened. But I'll be honest, thank god that was my attitude!
I am not joking when I say that it has now been rejected 20 times in a row. I've never seen anything like it. It was like 13 for 35, which I thought wasn't very good overall (because my music video Winded spoiled me, it went 18 for 35), then it got rejected from 20 or even 22 or 23 festivals in a row. I lost count. I have no idea what was up with that, most of them were not even very good festivals, LOL, so to me it was just a big fat whatever. It is a quirky comedy, though, and you know when you make one of those, some people will love it, and they definitely did, and others will just not get it. At DC Shorts, for instance, 2 of their 5 screeners on my film recommended it, but all 5 of them gave it a 4 or 5 for every single technical mark (out of 5). In other words, they all agreed it was very professionally made, top notch in editing, lighting, camera work, etc. But 3 of them just didn't like the story or the characters or the humor overall, whatever was the case.
I'm glad my feature is a lot more mainstream frankly, it's not so experimental and off-the-wall quirky. It'll be a fun journey, but nobody should get their hopes up on Sundance! I guess we could always send it, see what happens, but I would expect to be rejected just automatically so it wouldn't disappoint me whatsoever. Who knows, maybe it's worth the entry fee just to see, but I know people who make a short and they think it's so great, they actually tell other people, "Yeah we're pretty sure it'll get in to Sundance." I just think, uhh, that is bold, haha. A DP I know sent me a link to a short he did with this director, and this DP is very, very good, his work on the short was excellent as it always is, but the short was... both creepy and just not very good, to be honest. It was a mediocre effort. He wrote me after the deadline and was like, "To be honest, I was shocked we got rejected." I just thought are you kidding me? I could have told you that...
I graduated with a philosophy degree, I come from a background in film criticism and film history, I of all people certainly appreciate a deep, meaningful, interesting film! I LOVE them. But not EVERY movie should be that! Film is also entertainment and it also has the ability after a long, hard day to pop in a truly well made comedy or action film or genre picture and put a smile on your face and make you think life is going to be ok after all. If that isn't meaningful, if that isn't a big part of why we make movies, then I don't know what is! Like you said, maybe your film isn't edgy enough or cutting edge enough or whatever, but that shouldn't be ALL that matters. With some of the top festivals, it is.
I think Sundance is less pretentious actually, and I think Cannes is a lot less pretentious, somehow, they both seem to value commercialism as well as art. I appreciate that.
The feature I'm about to direct is a comedy, but it is also a good social satire and does have a philosophical element to it. Yet at the same time, you just know it's not a Sundance film, because it's not a $5 million movie, it doesn't have any major stars (hopefully we secure a few names, we're working on it), and it isn't directed by a famous actor or something like that. I still believe it's going to be a very good movie, so yes, I want it to play at least respectable festivals. Mainly, though, I suppose I could care less about that as long as I'm happy with it and we find distribution. If we got distribution with Lion's Gate, for instance, and they said we couldn't send it to any festivals, I'd still be like yeah alright whatever. I'm not a festival guy, I did that with my music videos and my short, I submitted three works, I've been selected 39 times and everything I've done has won at least at one festival. So I love that, it's fun, but it's not everything.
Rejections are super random, though, just like you said. My short film premiered at Dances With Films, it was 1/1, that was a huge premiere, a dream come true to be honest, because any time you make a short, it's your first professional effort (yes, I had made like 8 student shorts before but fortunately nobody ever saw them! LOL), and it premieres in Hollywood a few blocks from the DGA at a great theater like the Sunset 5, you feel good about it. Especially a festival where Hollywood agents and talent scouts do attend. Then we were nominated for 3 awards at Action On Film (Best Comedy - Short, Best Produced Screenplay - Short, and Best Cinematography - Short), and ended up winning Best Short Short Comedy at Eugene. The film went to 13 festivals, a very respectable number, and the premiere plus the award win was, to me, enough to be completely satisfied no matter what else happened. But I'll be honest, thank god that was my attitude!
I am not joking when I say that it has now been rejected 20 times in a row. I've never seen anything like it. It was like 13 for 35, which I thought wasn't very good overall (because my music video Winded spoiled me, it went 18 for 35), then it got rejected from 20 or even 22 or 23 festivals in a row. I lost count. I have no idea what was up with that, most of them were not even very good festivals, LOL, so to me it was just a big fat whatever. It is a quirky comedy, though, and you know when you make one of those, some people will love it, and they definitely did, and others will just not get it. At DC Shorts, for instance, 2 of their 5 screeners on my film recommended it, but all 5 of them gave it a 4 or 5 for every single technical mark (out of 5). In other words, they all agreed it was very professionally made, top notch in editing, lighting, camera work, etc. But 3 of them just didn't like the story or the characters or the humor overall, whatever was the case.
I'm glad my feature is a lot more mainstream frankly, it's not so experimental and off-the-wall quirky. It'll be a fun journey, but nobody should get their hopes up on Sundance! I guess we could always send it, see what happens, but I would expect to be rejected just automatically so it wouldn't disappoint me whatsoever. Who knows, maybe it's worth the entry fee just to see, but I know people who make a short and they think it's so great, they actually tell other people, "Yeah we're pretty sure it'll get in to Sundance." I just think, uhh, that is bold, haha. A DP I know sent me a link to a short he did with this director, and this DP is very, very good, his work on the short was excellent as it always is, but the short was... both creepy and just not very good, to be honest. It was a mediocre effort. He wrote me after the deadline and was like, "To be honest, I was shocked we got rejected." I just thought are you kidding me? I could have told you that...
dalethompson
Well-known member
Frank:
They're losers for taking this stance and you don't need to be a part of a film festival run by idiots, even it's in the same locale as where you shot your film.
Don't think of this as rejection either, think of it as being saved from dealing with these idiots and you've lost nothing despite this.
There are a few morons running film festivals, this may be one of them. Unfortunately, IQ and logical aren't prerequisites for running a festival, it's all about money and having connections.
They're losers for taking this stance and you don't need to be a part of a film festival run by idiots, even it's in the same locale as where you shot your film.
Don't think of this as rejection either, think of it as being saved from dealing with these idiots and you've lost nothing despite this.
There are a few morons running film festivals, this may be one of them. Unfortunately, IQ and logical aren't prerequisites for running a festival, it's all about money and having connections.
Frank Perrotto
Active member
Wow... I had no idea this thread was revived! I only came across it again after deciding to google my name after reading yet another article on facebook privacy blunders. To be honest, it was a little painful to read through the thread again.
Looking back, I'm glad I got a bit of **** here, because it basically pushed me to get off the damn internet, stop worrying about film festivals, twitter, blogs, etc. and try to find a different way in where only my ability would matter. I was living in L.A. at the time and had heard about this pitchmart thing taking place in Burbank in November of last year. I had about two months to write a feature length script, rewrite it, and then get approved to participate, which I did, and lo and behold, the whole shebang got an option and the company that optioned it and I are developing it as a television series. I don't want to say too much more because we're still working on the pitch trailer before going to networks, but the experience has been light years more fun and satisfying than dealing with film festivals and the indie world in general. And what few effects, scares, etc. that I provided in just two episodes of the web series shot for less than $500 got me further than the $15k and two years I spent shooting an indie feature intended for the festival route. Also, it proved to be a lot easier, just going to the pitchmart, to make connections on the other side of the studio fence than it was to get into any festivals. I was judged immediately on the marketability of my concept and my ability to pull it off... nothing else.
I now realize that by the time I had posted that link to the article in here, I was pretty bitter and feeling a total lack of confidence in myself. Even doing the web series was a conscious rebellion against doing anything too introspective and 'expressing myself' (although I look forward to doing that again someday) and just saying, "Well, can I entertain an audience? Can I just get a raw emotion or visceral reaction out of someone as a filmmaker? Should I even be DOING this anymore or is it a waste of time?" Now, the few clips online have gotten something like 70,000 views and I don't feel that need for validation as much as I did when I was doing the festival dance (pun intended)... I rely a lot more confidently on my instincts.
Anyway, getting back to the whole festival thing, I feel like hitting the 'me' from that time upside the head and saying, "Duh... did you think festivals operated any differently?"
I don't know what else can be said about film festivals... if that route works for some people still, then I'm happy that it's at least working for someone. However, I just don't believe the selection process is what it used to be, especially at the big festivals. Without a star or major connections or a producer's rep or a strong marketing team, I believe you have almost NO chance of getting in. Sure, you can get lucky and be the one good film that the selection committee volleys around and says, "We have to program this halfway decent micro-budget thing to keep our street cred," but the chances of that are 1 in however many films blindly submitted that are at least watchable divided by the number of slots available to such films. What I found really scary about the festival atmosphere is that something CAN be undeniably great yet still be ignored because, 'Hey... selecting films for the festivals is subjective... it doesn't mean your film isn't good.' Somehow, that doesn't comfort me as much as it probably should. By the way, I don't say my own feature is undeniably great, just good enough that it should have at least gotten into one or two festivals that we submitted to. A close friend of mine made a feature that I did all of the submissions for and I couldn't believe the stuff that would get into festivals he had been rejected from. I just had to scratch my head and wonder where they were coming from... or if my sense of what's good and what isn't is way out of whack. Of course luck and other factors play into your chances for success, but I find, more and more, that taking the festival route is closer to playing the slots than a good game of poker.
Again, if you can navigate the waters and get out of the festivals what you expected to get out of them, then great.... more power to you. Like others have said, it's all about keeping expectations in check. For me, the goal is to make a living at writing and directing, and I just don't think spending another dime on a feature bound for festivals will get me there. Mainly, the issue is that the most I could probably raise again would be $15k. Now I know that at least $10k of that should go to the publicist/festival marketing team, which only leaves $5k to shoot the film. I could do that OR I could take that 15k and spend every cent of it on a short film, call in a lot of favors, shoot for only 4-6 days vs. 12-25, spend up to $10k of that budget on special effects/larger set pieces, etc. and make sure every single thing in it is pitch perfect. If I hadn't already proven to myself that there's a way around the festivals, then perhaps I'd feel differently in taking the latter option. In other words, continue banging my head against the festival wall.
In my opinion, Neill Blomkamp making District 9 as a result of his short films, which are so undeniably great and showcase a unique vision, proves that it's still possible to bypass festivals altogether and get in based upon sheer talent. And if you look at the history of the director who made the recent sci-fi viral short, "The Raven", he had a feature that played Sundance, "Mancora", which all the articles about 'The Raven' neglect to mention. To me, that says something... that the guy went the artistic route, made something very well put together, got INTO Sundance, and then wound up deciding a few years later to just go balls out on a sci-fi short is telling. Now, sci-fi may not be your sensibility and having to make sci-fi or horror may compromise you as an artist if you feel you don't have it in you, but I love 2001, Alien, and Blade Runner just as much as I love the dramatic realism of movies like Midnight Cowboy, The Last Detail, and Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. So it's just a matter of tapping into some part of yourself that can combine what's commercial with your own vision.
The success of Panic Attack, The Raven, and even that live-action/animated short 'Pixels' will probably mean a flood of amazing short films invading the internet, and by the time the wave crests, that particular door will likely have already closed. It all comes down to timing and being at just the right point on the curve, so luck plays a big part, but at least with a good genre short as a calling card, talent and vision is at least the equal to luck.
And thanks dalethompson for the support! But like I said, I'm happy with the way things went, it pushed me to be better, accept the way things are, and adapt, not make excuses.
Looking back, I'm glad I got a bit of **** here, because it basically pushed me to get off the damn internet, stop worrying about film festivals, twitter, blogs, etc. and try to find a different way in where only my ability would matter. I was living in L.A. at the time and had heard about this pitchmart thing taking place in Burbank in November of last year. I had about two months to write a feature length script, rewrite it, and then get approved to participate, which I did, and lo and behold, the whole shebang got an option and the company that optioned it and I are developing it as a television series. I don't want to say too much more because we're still working on the pitch trailer before going to networks, but the experience has been light years more fun and satisfying than dealing with film festivals and the indie world in general. And what few effects, scares, etc. that I provided in just two episodes of the web series shot for less than $500 got me further than the $15k and two years I spent shooting an indie feature intended for the festival route. Also, it proved to be a lot easier, just going to the pitchmart, to make connections on the other side of the studio fence than it was to get into any festivals. I was judged immediately on the marketability of my concept and my ability to pull it off... nothing else.
I now realize that by the time I had posted that link to the article in here, I was pretty bitter and feeling a total lack of confidence in myself. Even doing the web series was a conscious rebellion against doing anything too introspective and 'expressing myself' (although I look forward to doing that again someday) and just saying, "Well, can I entertain an audience? Can I just get a raw emotion or visceral reaction out of someone as a filmmaker? Should I even be DOING this anymore or is it a waste of time?" Now, the few clips online have gotten something like 70,000 views and I don't feel that need for validation as much as I did when I was doing the festival dance (pun intended)... I rely a lot more confidently on my instincts.
Anyway, getting back to the whole festival thing, I feel like hitting the 'me' from that time upside the head and saying, "Duh... did you think festivals operated any differently?"
I don't know what else can be said about film festivals... if that route works for some people still, then I'm happy that it's at least working for someone. However, I just don't believe the selection process is what it used to be, especially at the big festivals. Without a star or major connections or a producer's rep or a strong marketing team, I believe you have almost NO chance of getting in. Sure, you can get lucky and be the one good film that the selection committee volleys around and says, "We have to program this halfway decent micro-budget thing to keep our street cred," but the chances of that are 1 in however many films blindly submitted that are at least watchable divided by the number of slots available to such films. What I found really scary about the festival atmosphere is that something CAN be undeniably great yet still be ignored because, 'Hey... selecting films for the festivals is subjective... it doesn't mean your film isn't good.' Somehow, that doesn't comfort me as much as it probably should. By the way, I don't say my own feature is undeniably great, just good enough that it should have at least gotten into one or two festivals that we submitted to. A close friend of mine made a feature that I did all of the submissions for and I couldn't believe the stuff that would get into festivals he had been rejected from. I just had to scratch my head and wonder where they were coming from... or if my sense of what's good and what isn't is way out of whack. Of course luck and other factors play into your chances for success, but I find, more and more, that taking the festival route is closer to playing the slots than a good game of poker.
Again, if you can navigate the waters and get out of the festivals what you expected to get out of them, then great.... more power to you. Like others have said, it's all about keeping expectations in check. For me, the goal is to make a living at writing and directing, and I just don't think spending another dime on a feature bound for festivals will get me there. Mainly, the issue is that the most I could probably raise again would be $15k. Now I know that at least $10k of that should go to the publicist/festival marketing team, which only leaves $5k to shoot the film. I could do that OR I could take that 15k and spend every cent of it on a short film, call in a lot of favors, shoot for only 4-6 days vs. 12-25, spend up to $10k of that budget on special effects/larger set pieces, etc. and make sure every single thing in it is pitch perfect. If I hadn't already proven to myself that there's a way around the festivals, then perhaps I'd feel differently in taking the latter option. In other words, continue banging my head against the festival wall.
In my opinion, Neill Blomkamp making District 9 as a result of his short films, which are so undeniably great and showcase a unique vision, proves that it's still possible to bypass festivals altogether and get in based upon sheer talent. And if you look at the history of the director who made the recent sci-fi viral short, "The Raven", he had a feature that played Sundance, "Mancora", which all the articles about 'The Raven' neglect to mention. To me, that says something... that the guy went the artistic route, made something very well put together, got INTO Sundance, and then wound up deciding a few years later to just go balls out on a sci-fi short is telling. Now, sci-fi may not be your sensibility and having to make sci-fi or horror may compromise you as an artist if you feel you don't have it in you, but I love 2001, Alien, and Blade Runner just as much as I love the dramatic realism of movies like Midnight Cowboy, The Last Detail, and Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. So it's just a matter of tapping into some part of yourself that can combine what's commercial with your own vision.
The success of Panic Attack, The Raven, and even that live-action/animated short 'Pixels' will probably mean a flood of amazing short films invading the internet, and by the time the wave crests, that particular door will likely have already closed. It all comes down to timing and being at just the right point on the curve, so luck plays a big part, but at least with a good genre short as a calling card, talent and vision is at least the equal to luck.
And thanks dalethompson for the support! But like I said, I'm happy with the way things went, it pushed me to be better, accept the way things are, and adapt, not make excuses.
dalethompson
Well-known member
Frank:
No worries at all, don't ever take it personally about a festival or someone critiquing your work. The best judge of your own work is you, who cares what others think?
One of the directors I really admire now (and didn't in the past) is James Cameron. He gets a lot of flak and takes a heck of a lot of criticism and maybe some (or most) of it is self-induced but he just rises above it all the time. Most critics, whether they want to admit it or not, wanted to see Avatar fail just so Cameron would taste failure and stick a knife into his ego. Yeah, Cameron can be a cold and very smug person but who cares what kind of person we think he is, he's a great director and he knows his work is great.
Follow your ideas to the end, use the bitterness and negativity to your own advantage (let it push you when you need a push) and come out swinging again. It would be easy to give up, true, but if you have a passion for film (which I get the impression you do just from your writing), then you'll make your next film even better just to silence the a##holes out there.
Be a Cameron and hit 'em where it hurts the most... with a great film, nothing shuts up critics like a job well done
No worries at all, don't ever take it personally about a festival or someone critiquing your work. The best judge of your own work is you, who cares what others think?
One of the directors I really admire now (and didn't in the past) is James Cameron. He gets a lot of flak and takes a heck of a lot of criticism and maybe some (or most) of it is self-induced but he just rises above it all the time. Most critics, whether they want to admit it or not, wanted to see Avatar fail just so Cameron would taste failure and stick a knife into his ego. Yeah, Cameron can be a cold and very smug person but who cares what kind of person we think he is, he's a great director and he knows his work is great.
Follow your ideas to the end, use the bitterness and negativity to your own advantage (let it push you when you need a push) and come out swinging again. It would be easy to give up, true, but if you have a passion for film (which I get the impression you do just from your writing), then you'll make your next film even better just to silence the a##holes out there.
Be a Cameron and hit 'em where it hurts the most... with a great film, nothing shuts up critics like a job well done
Frank, I hear you all the way! I've been rejected to some pretty bad festivals (wonder why I submitted in the first place!). I've also gotten into a few good festivals (and some, well....). Festivals are not the BE ALL END ALL for sure. In fact for awhile I was just looking at them as a brief pat on the back and the 'privilege' of being acknowledged as a filmmaker. Mostly that's all they are (unless you're in a market festival but even know that means little). Sometimes they present an opportunity to connect with others and those connections are worthy.
I'm really glad you've gotten to higher places and we all wish you the best. I don't know how many times I've agreed with Dale's " use the bitterness and negativity to your own advantage (let it push you when you need a push) and come out swinging again."
Keep us up to date with your progress and congrats!
Todd
I'm really glad you've gotten to higher places and we all wish you the best. I don't know how many times I've agreed with Dale's " use the bitterness and negativity to your own advantage (let it push you when you need a push) and come out swinging again."
Keep us up to date with your progress and congrats!
Todd