Arri S type vs. Bolex H-16

S

sblocalcrew

Member
Im looking into getting a 16mm camera for mainly snowboarding and all of the production companies use Arri S types but the H-16 seems to be the same camera and its cheaper. Does anybody know any differences between the H-16 and the S type? They seem like they have the same functions but just different looking. Your help is appreciated.
 
Granted, I may be a bit biased, but I think if you look closely at the Arriflex 16S and any variation of the Bolex H16, and they are different as night and day.

The Arriflex 16S is a professional production motion picture camera from the 1960's. The Bolex H16 is a consumer motion picture camera from the same period.

The Arriflex is built far better, has registration pin movement, and gives you the opportunity to use professional quality motion picture camera lenses. The Arriflex is also powered by an electric motor, as opposed to the spring wind motor found on many Bolex H16 cameras.

Visit the www.Arri16S.com web site to find out much more about the Arriflex 16S cameras. There is a reason "all of the production companies use Arri S types". They are far better and more professional cameras.

-Tim
 
I am new to 16mm and recently bought a Bolex H16. I like it. But if I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with the Arri. The lens options for the C mount Bolex don't seem that great, and I don't have a lot of confidence in the strength of the C mount. It seems OK for small primes, but I would start to worry if I stuck a Angie 12-120 zoom on there.

I do like that the Bolex can easily be converted to S16, but then when you do that, your options for lenses seem to be between slim and none unless you want to get a PL mount converter and spend $5,000+ on a lens.

I LOVE the wind up crank on the Bolex and the fact you don't have to drag a big heavy battery around with you. That would be a major bonus for shooting snowboarding. You could just throw the camera in a backback and go. No worrying about batteries and them going dead and whatnot. Also the split prisim viewfinder on the Bolex is not very good.

I have no experience with the Arri, but the Bolex is super easy to load. It pretty much loads itself.

I don't think you can really go wrong with that Arri. I'll probably buy one also. Whatever you chose, I would skip the K3 though. I was considering one at one time. I'm glad I did not buy one. They seem like junk compared to the Bolex and Arri. If you go with the Bolex, get the newer Rex 4 or Rex 5.

Here's a screen cap of the making of the extreme mountain bike film "The Collective". All the slow motion shots in it were shot on 16mm. As you can see, the guy in the foreground is shooting with an Arri S type, and the guy in the background is shooting with a Bolex H16 Rex 4. So obviously either is up to the task.

It's up to you to what you like better.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1549/collectiveig5.jpg


Also note that the guy with the Arri is using a 501 head. If I went into a film making forum and said I was using a 501 head to make my film, I would probably get flamed to death by purists and armchair film makers on what a piece of junk it is and how it won't work. Yet this these two are selling thousands of copies of this video and making money hand over fist. Not to mention they have won several awards for "Best Cinematography".

So don't worry about what Company A or Company B are using. Use what works for you.




TIM: Does that look like an Angie 12-120 on that Bolex?
 
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I have a Bolex and love it for the ease of operation. But the main difference for me is that the Arri has their spinning mirror which allows an unimpeded image hitting your film. Nothing between the lens and the film except air. (Arri received a Technical Academy Award for that movement and it is now copied by most other professional cameras.) As referenced above, the Bolex has that split prism that the light must travel through - it not only eats up about a half of a stop in light, but it softens the image. I have seen the difference, and it is noticeable. Also, noted above, pin registration can't be beat on the Arri. But I do love my Bolex (and it has been converted to Super16).
 
I agree with the Arri over Bolex choice. But I differ in judgement that "C" mount lenses are not up to par with the ones offered in Arri mount. The angenieux "C" mount primes ar some of the better sixteen millimeter lenses ever made. They offer a nice assortment of focal lengths (10,15,25,50 and 75mm) and are all quite fast for their time. If I remember right there is a 25mm f.95 . Nothing like that in Arri mount. (I think)
Then there is the 5.9mm f1.8 that is a sharp lens with little light fall off and decent rectilinear correction. Although this lens can be had in Arri mount also.
One nice little 16mm zoom is the Angenieux 9.5-57mm F1.6 (?) compact, fast and sharp. This one is also availble in either mount.
The Ang. primes can generally be had for a lot less money then the Arri mounted lenses.
All this aside, the Arri is a marvolus piece of enginerring that is built like a tank and sure is easier to work on the the Bolex with its Swiss watch works type design.
 
BOG said:
TIM: Does that look like an Angie 12-120 on that Bolex?
Click to expand...

BOG,

Looks like an Angenieux 12-120 on both the Bolex and the Arriflex. That is a very old Arriflex 16S, what we refer to as a "Flat Door". They were the first versions of the camera and came out in 1952.

I have to differ, that is a 503 head he has the Arriflex mounted on.


Chuck,

I have never used any of the Angenieux prime lenses. I had a Bolex EBM and a Bolex H8 Rex1 many years ago, but only had Switar lenses for them. The Switars were nothing to sneeze at and made nice images. It's just with an Arriflex 16S/B you can use Zeiss Super Speed Mk1 primes, and I don't think anything available for the Bolex can compare to them. I agree, some of the older Schneiders, the Rodenstocks, and even some of the Zeiss Jena lenses were not that spectacular and I can see the Angenieux primes making better images.

My favorite lenses for those cameras are still the Cooke Kinetal primes. I have seen them occasionally in C mount, though I do not know if they are for the Bolex.

Having serviced Bolex cameras a number of years ago, and now doing the Arriflex, I can say that the build of the Bolex is very much a consumer camera with stamped steel parts etc., compared to the machined steel parts in the Arriflex.

The Bolex is a very nice camera for what it is. It is just not a professional production motion picture camera.

-Tim
 
Timmyjoe said:
BOG,

Looks like an Angenieux 12-120 on both the Bolex and the Arriflex. That is a very old Arriflex 16S, what we refer to as a "Flat Door". They were the first versions of the camera and came out in 1952.

I have to differ, that is a 503 head he has the Arriflex mounted on.
Click to expand...

Hum. I don't know why I called that a 501 even though it's clearly a 503. I must of been half asleep.

If one were looking to buy a Arri S or S/B type, is there a particular one that is more desirable and has a feature that identifies it? For example the more desireable Bolex Rex 4 has a flat base and another feature or two.

You say that one is a old "flat door" type. Yet they all seem to look the same to me.
 
BOG said:
If one were looking to buy a Arri S or S/B type, is there a particular one that is more desirable and has a feature that identifies it? For example the more desireable Bolex Rex 4 has a flat base and another feature or two.

You say that one is a old "flat door" type. Yet they all seem to look the same to me.
Click to expand...

BOG,

Take a look at the www.Arri16S.com web site, there is a page that shows the history of the camera in pictures. You can see the difference between the "flat door" and the beveled door that replaced it in the later cameras.

If I were looking for another Arriflex 16S camera I would look for a late model, (serial number above 12,900), Arriflex 16S/B (the cameras with the one ARRI Bayonet mount in the three lens turret, allowing you to use Zeiss Super Speed Mk1 primes lenses), not the GS model (the one with the internal sync generator that was used with the Nagra recorders that no one uses anymore. I would avoid the GS model because it makes the camera a little bigger, heavier, and more complicated to have serviced) and make sure the serial number on the door of the camera matches the serial number on the back side of the camera (the optics in the camera door are a matched set to the optics in the camera body).

Hope that helps,
-Tim
 
think i can help you. i shoot a ton of skateboarding, and picked up a non-reflex bolex yesterday for $200 for the body. i basically got it because of price, but am shooting myself in the foot now because non-reflex is probably the biggest peice of **** ever. i am so bummed on not being able to see it ttl and having to buy a reflex lens if i want to see it. go arri, but wait for an amazing deal. ill probably try to sell this one for more
 
I've shot for snowboarding vids for years using both Arris and Bolexes. The Bolex has a great image, perhaps a bit sharper than an Arri S with the same lens. I think this might be because the shutter angle is a bit smaller with a Bolex. A few shooters I know have ditched their Arri S to get a new Bolex super 16. The disadvantage with a Bolex is not being able to shoot for more than 17 seconds at 24 frames. If you are still looking, my friend is selling his full Arri S package, with a 10-150 Angeniuex, and a 5.9 mm wide, battery packs and chargers for $1700 Canadian. That's around $1580 USD. Plus shipping of course. It's located in Whistler BC. Email me if you're interested. He's shooting with a Bolex now.
 
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