Arri Fresnel vs Open Face

D

DDirector

Veteran
I'm not buying anything or planning on using them anytime soon, just trying to learn more.

I know these two have been compared before but no one has referred to the newer reflective discs used in some of the lights like the Arri Arrilite 750 plus or the 2000 plus.

Lets compare the 2000w fresnel and the 2000w plus:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/575656-REG/Arri_552200_ST_2_Studio_Fresnel_2000.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/812612-REG/Arri_571201_Arrilite_2000_Plus.html
Because the fresnel has a lens, I can tell this wont be as bright as the 2000w plus version.
It's been said that with the reflective discs inside, is as good as the fresnel in terms of light quality.
It has great focusing like the fresnel too from flood to spot.

You heard double shadows with open face lights. But I dont see any of that even with my older 1000w open face light.

What is the difference? Is there any difference anymore really? Or is the open face (plus version) the better choice?
If you had the choice to use one of these, which would it be and why?
 
The thing to remember is that Fresnels have lovely soft beams that gently tail off at the edges, and can help in disguising defects - like spots, zits and blemishes. Redheads and Blondes (which is what the open face Arri 2K is, of course) offer more oomph, but less finesse. The facets on the reflector are designed to soften the beam a bit, and of course not passing through a lossy glass lens, which can get grimy on the inside face without much effort - but it's NOT a Fresnel. Two Fresnels will blend, two open face light sources usually have a defined beam cut-off 'line' in the light. Given the choice, I'd have a Fresnel - but weight and of course the delicacy of a bit of glass for transport might make a difference. I've also often thought that looking into an open face lamp, where you can see the filament is more unpleasant than looking at a lens.
 
The first time I ever shot with Fresnels, I knew I was going to have to spend some money to upgrade my lighting kit. You have so much more control and they are very forgiving. They are a joy to work with. I'd recommend getting one... it won't be your last.
 
Those are "two different lights." For a hobbyist the difference might not be so apparent: you turn on both switches and there is light... But if you work long enough then you develop better understanding which tool would be best to use for which application. There are time you care about sheer power so "cheap" open face might be your choice, there are times when you care about weight of the fixture (open face again), there are times where you care about control (fresnel).
 
The big issue is control. It is useful to take a look at the photometric data of the fixtures for a quantitative comparison. I found the photometric data for the ST2 2000W Studio Fresnel very easily, but could only find the info for the ARRILITE 2000, not the plus. It should be very similar. Take a look.

Arri 2000 W photometrics.jpg

Arri 200 watt open face photometrics.jpg

Of course this does not show qualitative differences or the differences that Patryk talks about but it is a start.
 
Are they the newer Arrilite 2000+ fixtures Paul? or the older style?

As to the newer arrilite open face units, they employ the same 'arrimax' reflectors as Arri's big HMIs, it supposedly increases output by something like 20% and offers a more precise beam which they say is about halfway between a fresnel and an old-style open face unit.

So the new open face offerings do offer some handy features.

Personally, I haven't fired a fresnel directly at someone's face in the last 5-6 years, everything's bounced or fired into diffusion these days, so I prefer the higher output of open-face units for key and fill. Fresnels remain vastly superior for anything that requires precision though, like back-lights/edge-lights/controlled pools of light on the set etc.
 
Grug said:
Are they the newer Arrilite 2000+ fixtures Paul? or the older style?

As to the newer arrilite open face units, they employ the same 'arrimax' reflectors as Arri's big HMIs, it supposedly increases output by something like 20% and offers a more precise beam which they say is about halfway between a fresnel and an old-style open face unit.

So the new open face offerings do offer some handy features.

Personally, I haven't fired a fresnel directly at someone's face in the last 5-6 years, everything's bounced or fired into diffusion these days, so I prefer the higher output of open-face units for key and fill. Fresnels remain vastly superior for anything that requires precision though, like back-lights/edge-lights/controlled pools of light on the set etc.
Click to expand...

I will check but these lights are about 7 years old.
 
750w source 4's are just as bright as a 2k fresnel and have WAY more control, most days of the week I'll take one of those. But getting back to the question, no, the new Arrilites are not as focusable as a fresnel, and they're not as much of a point source. Maybe a little bit more than a classic redhead or blonde, but to me it doesn't really matter. If I'm choosing an open face fixture at all that means I don't really care about precision, I won't care about the type of reflector that's in the light either.
 
One thing to remember with a Fresnel light is that you can remove the lens and have ALMOST all of the advantages of an open faced light and you will also have, depending on the specific lights, more focus control from flood to spot.

Moseph, Source 4's are definitely on my list of lights to get or would be very near the top of any rental package I would get when the need arises. I have never used them but am a big fan of 1K PARs and the Source 4 look heads and shoulders much better than the PARs.
 
I just bought a couple of the mini-leko zooms. Reasonable size and weight. 750W. What a clever bugger they are.
 
Moseph said:
750w source 4's are just as bright as a 2k fresnel and have WAY more control, most days of the week I'll take one of those. But getting back to the question, no, the new Arrilites are not as focusable as a fresnel, and they're not as much of a point source. Maybe a little bit more than a classic redhead or blonde, but to me it doesn't really matter. If I'm choosing an open face fixture at all that means I don't really care about precision, I won't care about the type of reflector that's in the light either.
Click to expand...

The new reflectors increase light output quite a bit though, and for any fixture thats something to be interested in.
 
If the open face (the new version with the arrimax reflector) is lit through a diffusion, I dont see this being an issue. The fresnel or the open face will be pretty much the same, will it not?
The open face will probably just give off more light.
Most of the times, the light will be lit through some type of diffusion or bounced. So, from what I'm seeing, the open face seems to be the better choice. Unless the photometrics say so differently.
The ones listed on the last page was the old open face (the same one I own currently) but Im talking about the newer ones.

How much MORE control do you really get out of a fresnel?
Explain, maybe with an example?
 
See attached, one is a 2k 8" junior and the other is a 2k Ianiro. Both with a 3" gap between the doors, full flood.
 

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Moseph said:
See attached, one is a 2k 8" junior and the other is a 2k Ianiro. Both with a 3" gap between the doors, full flood.
Click to expand...
But this is still NOT the new reflector.
Im asking how will the NEW reflector make a difference? It says its much better and almost just like a fresnel.
 
Which Source 4 are we talking about? The new Fresnel or the PARnel? I've not tried the new Fresnels yet.
 
According to Arri themselves the new 2K open face is just redesigned in the reflector to give off more light than its predecessor. So you get slightly more bang for the same amount of wattage and if you are going to shoot it through a silk or similar anyways, sure, use the open face for more punch (if you need it…)

Maybe you should also for fun try to compare shooting par cans through a silk and compare them to arris open faces. Par cans are below cheap and pack quite a punch as well.
 
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