Arri 16s Help

T

the db

New member
I was wondering if you could help me. I am looking to buy a 16s camera off of eBay and I live in Australia. I found this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230077572486&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR1_PCN_BIX&refitem=230073235657&itemcount=1&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget
It seems like a good price for what you get but me not knowing a lot about the cameras or lenses I was wondering if you could take a look and tell me what you think? I really want to get in to film making and this camera seems like a good choice. Any response would be greatly apprehended.

Thank you,
Daniel C. Brooks
 
Hi,
I have a camera like that and
what I can see from the picture it seems to be in a nice condition.... and if it is in a good working condition I think 1500$AU = 900€ is reasonable.
If and if, ...moviecamera is a very risky thing to buy from ebay without being able to see it in real and the best would be to test it before buying it.
(My experiences from ebay as a buyer have been 99% very good, people who are selling filmtools seem to be very honest)
If the camera has serious problems, overhauling that camera and lenses can cost much more than 900, if the work is done by professional technicians with proper tools.
And there are not very many who really are experienced to overhaul this camera atleast in europe.
Good luck.
 
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Daniel,

It is a little tough to see what kind of shape the camera is in with only one picture posted. And the seller does not list too many things. Does the camera come with a torque motor (necessary to use the 400 ft magazine)? Can he show you pictures of the lenses, and what kind of shape are the lenses in? The Cooke 9mm is a valuable lens if it is in good shape. The Zeiss 16mm is also valuable. I am not sure the Zeiss 24mm lens is actually for 16mm cameras, it may be a 35mm camera lens. And the Angenieux 12-120 could be very nice, or could be kind of soft, depending on the individual lens.

The seller also does not list what motor comes with the camera. Does it have the ARRI variable speed motor (common) or the ARRI constant speed motor (and if so, is it 24 fps or 25 fps, and I am sorry but I am not familiar with the film standard in Australia, is it 24 or 25 fps?)? Or does it have one of the Tobin aftermarket motors. If it has any of these motors except the ARRI constant speed, the camera can be run off of 12 volts DC, so any battery pack you can buy in Australia that puts out 12 volts DC should run the camera fine.

I have a section on buying Arriflex 16S cameras off of eBay on my web site, you may want to read it. You can also download copies of the operation manuals for the Arriflex 16S cameras which will tell you more about them and help you make an informed decision.

Arri16S.com

Hope that helps,
-Tim
 
I have emailed the seller asking for the serial number and some more history about the camera. Would I be able to find out what motor it had from the serial number or would the seller have to check? I will also ask for some more close up pictures of the camera.

Daniel
 
The serial number will not tell you what motor is with the camera. The motors are totally separate, any motor will fit on any camera. Ask the seller which motor is on the camera, he should have no problem telling you. Or have him take a picture of it and we can tell you what motor it is, they all look distinctively different.

Make sure the serial number on the door of the camera matches the serial number on the back side of the body of the camera.

-Tim
 
Tim,
sigh, it is very nice to see that someone is still taking care of these cameras. I did not know that a service like this exists. When I found my Arri 16S, it was very difficult to get it overhauled. Nowadays it is running fine.
My only sorrow with it is that the viewfinder has a very strong yellow tint . I guess one or few of the lenses in the viewfinder system should be replaced with a new ones. Are you familiar with this problem?
Thank you for the Arri S manual and very lovely site with a lot of good information about Arri 16S !

Daniel,
What a pity that the seller has no history at all in ebay. On the other hand, I believe that you can get an idea of him and his knowledge about what he is selling, when he answers to your questions, hopefully with more pics.
These cameras are still real tools, if only it would be possible to get them modified Super 16...
 
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The issue with the yellowing of the viewfinder is caused by the glue between the lens elements in the viewfinder tube (the part in the camera door). There is no way to fix it, per se, but if you find a donor camera with the newer optics, they can be removed from the donor camera and put into your camera, but everything must be re-aligned. Not an inexpensive process.

My personal Arriflex 16S camera was made in 1957, and the viewfinder optics are yellowed, but it doesn't bother me much. Still makes fantastic images.

-Tim
 
Thanks Tim,
I believe that I can live with a yellow viewfinder now that I know why it is like that.
I had to go to my cellar and pick up my Arri ST (I've always thought that it is ST) to check my serial numbers if they match.
Yes they do and it is No:9496, are you able tell the year it was made?
Do you know what is the difference between S and ST?
When my camera was overhauled we had serious difficulties with the viewfinder, until one retired cameraingenieur gave some hints to the younger one,who was working for me, how to adjust it.
Luckily he took it as "a hobby" so the overhauling was pretty cheap plus I got arristeelbayonet and a better matteglass with centercross and guidelines.
It just feels so pro when it is loaded and running..... and the picture is so steady also at high speeds.
Cheers
 
chromekoda said:
Thanks Tim,
I had to go to my cellar and pick up my Arri ST (I've always thought that it is ST) to check my serial numbers if they match.
Yes they do and it is No:9496, are you able tell the year it was made?
Do you know what is the difference between S and ST?
When my camera was overhauled we had serious difficulties with the viewfinder, until one retired cameraingenieur gave some hints to the younger one,who was working for me, how to adjust it.
Luckily he took it as "a hobby" so the overhauling was pretty cheap plus I got arristeelbayonet and a better matteglass with centercross and guidelines.
It just feels so pro when it is loaded and running..... and the picture is so steady also at high speeds.
Cheers
Click to expand...

That serial number would put it being made probably in the early 1960's or late 1950's.

The only way anyone can work on those cameras is if they are trained by one of the old techs. I was very fortunate that Axel Broda took me under his wing and trained me on the camera. Very few folks can work on them anymore as so many of the ARRI techs from that period are either retired or have passed on.

They still make great images and are a very easy camera to hand hold.

The St nomenclature was the cameras that went to the European market, but other than the door saying St. then the serial number, as opposed to Nr. then the serial number, I have found no difference in the cameras. The big differences have to do with how the viewfinders changed over the years, as well as the internal guts of the camera. You can see the "History in Pictures" of the camera on the web site.

-Tim
 
Serial NO is 13139
And he bought it at "Gassor" in San Francisco USA, 10 years ago
hes going to send me a pic of the motor soon,

Daniel
 
Timmyjoe said:
The issue with the yellowing of the viewfinder is caused by the glue between the lens elements in the viewfinder tube (the part in the camera door). There is no way to fix it, per se, but if you find a donor camera with the newer optics, they can be removed from the donor camera and put into your camera, but everything must be re-aligned. Not an inexpensive process.

My personal Arriflex 16S camera was made in 1957, and the viewfinder optics are yellowed, but it doesn't bother me much. Still makes fantastic images.

-Tim
Click to expand...

Hi Tim,

About the yellowing of the viefinder optics.... The "glue" that was used for almost all optics back when is called balsam and yes it does yellow. These optical groups can be recemented. They have to seperated by SLOWY heating in mineral oil untill they slide apart from one another. the excess cement then can be cleaned off with acetone. Then they can be recemented with modern day optical adhesives some of which can be almost instantly cured with ultra violet light.

Chuck

Oh and by the way I am retired but not quite dead yet. LOL
 
Chuck,

That is really interesting, I had never heard that before.

Seems like a lot of work though, especially since it works fine as it is. Thanks for the info.

-Tim
 
chuck coburn said:
Oh and by the way I am retired but not quite dead yet. LOL
Click to expand...

Chuck,

Forgive me for not knowing, but what are you retired from? Were you a lens tech? Or a camera repair person? I'm confused.

Thanks,
-Tim
 
Timmyjoe said:
Chuck,

Forgive me for not knowing, but what are you retired from? Were you a lens tech? Or a camera repair person? I'm confused.

Thanks,
-Tim
Click to expand...

Your confused ? I'm still trying to figure out why I'm retired! ! Actually both camera and optics. Started out assemblying Tele Athenars after school in 1965 for Century Optics.
Ended doing all the assembly (and some optical design) for the Showscan (CP-65mm) camera project in the early nineties. And a whole bunch of **** in between.
 
Chuck,

Since I have had no luck reaching you through a PM, I will try reaching you here. I have a question about the little Arriflex prime lenses that came with the Arriflex 16S and 16M cameras back in the 1960's.

They are little primes like these, made by Schneider mostly, but some by Taylor Hobson Cooke (the Kinetals).

LittlerArriPrime.jpg


Can these lenses be serviced? Once you put them up on a collimator, and realize that the infinity focus is slightly soft, is there a way to bring it back in crisp and sharp? I have been told, "Those lenses pretty much are what they are." As in, you can't do anything about it if it is out of collimation, they are not adjustable like newer lenses are. Is this true?

I would love to be able to bring them back into spec. to go with the Arriflex cameras that I am setting back to original factory spec.

Your thoughts?

Thanks Chuck,
-Tim
 
Tim,

Yes I did.
Still not sure why I couldn't reach you the first time I tried.
You can reach me at preshowscan@yahoo.com directly.
Lots of luck on the lens. I'm sure when you start you will be able to see how simple this particular design is to work in. Don't ever let anybody tell you it's just the way it is. Most times things can be improved.
Anyhow it's my pleasure to help if I can. I was fortunate to have worked with some of the best in the field and all that I know is due to them.

Chuck
 
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