Are you born with talent or can you learn it?

F

Fly-catchers

Active member
As a very recent newcomer to DSLR and video shooting I am interested as to whether the often excellent examples of video work on sites like vimeo is down to natural talent or has been learnt.
I got myself a Nikon D5100 in January mainly for stills but also film making as well. If you type in D5100 in vimeo or youtube most of the examples are rather boring "test type" videos. Type in GH2 and you get a far more interesting range of videos/films. I have been struck at just how good some of them are like the ones by Seb Farges (so far my favorites) but also John Galliver. His are a completely different style and being a BBC camerman may well help!
And there are lots of others as well. I have now got myself a GH2 and find its operation much more enjoyable and useful over the Nikon. Though I still prefer the D5100 when taking stills. But for now I am firmly in the making "test type" and rather lacklustre films! So it makes me wonder whether you can learn (as an amateur) to take and even more importantly edit a good film- or it helps to have this natural talent?

The one really key advantage that digital video has over film is the opportunity to take as much material as you want and just experiment. So perhaps the answer is just keep filming at every opportunity and them see what you can do in the editing stage. I have to admit that my editing software is only Premiere Elements as Premiere Pro is beyond my budget for now. The key snag with all these "amateur type" software is the emphasis on tacky looking special effects and endless types of dissolves! For others is there is any one key thing that has helped you to take better and more interesting film?

cheers

bill
 
Passion, dedication and hard work always beats unfocussed talent. Talented and dedicated? Look out! But any teacher can tell you that most people don't work hard at what comes to them easily.
 
I highly doubt filmmaking is a talent anyone is born with, however people have different tastes and approaches, some which can be beneficial to filmmaking to some degree. But I have to make an important point here, to become good at filmmaking you do not need to born with any features out of the ordinary. I have reason to believe you just as everyone else is born with logic and creativity. As long as you are genuinely interested in doing it and have the discipline and commitment to do doing it, then it all comes to your actions and how you will approach it.

Make sure to keep yourself challenged!
 
Definitely not born with it at least in my experience. My first films were total pieces of crap. Most peoples' are. You have to nurture along every aspect of the craft in yourself and you can't ever stop learning.
 
The more you invest in learning and working on your craft, the faster you will get good. It takes roughly 10,000 hours of focused practice to master anything, which means 2.5 hours of serious practice a day will get you to a point of serious skill in about 10 years. If you can put 10 hours a day into your craft, then you can get really good in a few years. There is no shortcut to mastery, you can only gain skill through doing.

That practice also has to be focused. If you are just waving a camera around without much thought, or if you are just shooting tons of coverage with the hopes of piecing something together in the edit, then you really aren't working on your skills. You need to really concentrate on what you are doing with a definite goal in mind. You can't just say "I want better XXX" (framing, lighting, focus, performances from actors, etc) and keep working the same way, you need to analyze what's good and bad about your projects and compare them to projects that you admire. You always need to be working with a specific goal in mind, and you always need to be critical of your work.

That being said, another big obstacle to achieving real success in a field is getting discouraged. We all make terrible films when we start out (at least in a technical sense), and it's very important to remain optimistic and positive in the face of failure. Failures will come and go, and you will experience many on your road to success. Most people who begin this path will give up before getting to far, or just don't realize or aren't willing to put as much of themselves into the endeavor as is required.

In short, hard work and consistent, FOCUSED practice is the secret to everything in life. Prodigy is a myth (every 8 year old violin prodigy has spent 6 years playing the violin 8+ hours a day which equals about 12,000 hours of practice) and hard work can get you there. Never give up and keep working hard on specific goals and you'll be there in no time.
 
Practice, skill, knowledge learned through hard work can make it possible to properly execute good ideas. It can teach you what is a good idea and what is a bad idea. However, it can't give you good ideas, that's talent (and occasionally luck).

There are... welders who do a totally competent job creating a weld that will hold and function perfectly well, but some welders literally create works of art. It transcends film making.

to summarize, you need both to be great. Talent AND hard work/practice. You need original good ideas and the ability to focus and execute them.
 
+1 for gonzo and Egg Born Son.

The greatest got to be great because they developed skills (what you earn) based on their talent (what you are born with). I think everyone has some sort of talent. Capitalizing on it to work for your goals is the key.
 
stefancolson said:
It takes roughly 10,000 hours of focused practice to master anything, which means 2.5 hours of serious practice a day will get you to a point of serious skill in about 10 years.
Click to expand...

stefancolson said:
(every 8 year old violin prodigy has spent 6 years playing the violin 8+ hours a day which equals about 12,000 hours of practice)
Click to expand...

I laughed out loud at those calculations.

I agree with pretty much everyone. Talent is what you have already and skill is what you learn and develop.
 
I am definitely in agreement that dedication, focus and study trump any innate "Talent". The issue for me is that, for filmmaking, a lot of folks forget what the basic skill of the craft is... STORYTELLING!

It is easy to get distracted by the vast technical skills that basic and advanced filmmaking requires (ALL of which can be learned and practiced to proficiency), but the bottom line is not in the mastery of specific techniques. The bottom line is knowing what effect these specific techniques have on an audience and how do they help you tell your story. Then, there is the next level; how does the story you are telling, and the way that you chose to tell it (The techniques you have mastered) articulate a specific point of view on the human condition? Answering this question is crossing the threshold where some films rise to the level of Great Art.

To Fly-catchers, the one thing that I have noted about the great filmmakers, from interviews and such, is that they are all very intelligent and they all seem to be well versed in much more than just filmmaking. I think you could sit down with most successful filmmakers and have a great conversation about film and film history but also about art and art history, literature, drama, music and music history, design, architecture, history, politics, science or numerous other topics. In going forward in studying filmmaking don't forget to also study much more than that.
 
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David G. Smith said:
The issue for me is that, for filmmaking, a lot of folks forget what the basic skill of the craft is... STORYTELLING!

It is easy to get distracted by the vast technical skills that basic and advanced filmmaking requires (ALL of which can be learned and practiced to proficiency), but the bottom line is not in the mastery of specific techniques. The bottom line is what effect these specific techniques have on an audience and how do they help you tell your story. Then, there is the next level; how does the story you are telling, and the way that you chose to tell it (The techniques you have mastered) articulate a specific point of view on the human condition? Answering this question is crossing the threshold where some films rise to the level of Great Art.

...In going forward in studying filmmaking, don't forget to also study much more than that.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with you more, although I'd argue that in filmmaking all of the technical skills vastly enhance the quality of storytelling. Good framing can enhance the emotional tone of a character or scene, as can camera height and angle, movement, shot composition, etc. Good art direction can flesh out a character's history. Good music can create tension or greatly amplify emotion. Good sound design can fill in much of what isn't in a shot. Good editing dictates pacing. Good costume design and hair/make up can help suspend disbelief. Every department brings something to the table without which the story will not be as effectively told.

While a director is not responsible for all of these components individually, it's only when a singular vision is maintained throughout all departments that greatness happens. To be able to consistently make great films (lightning does strike on rare occasions) requires an understanding of all aspects of the process and the ability to see the final product before production has begun. Great filmmakers know what they want the shots to look like, what they want the music to sound like, what they want the sets and costumes to look like, where they want the camera to move, what they want the lighting to look like, etc. It's only possible to juggle all of these through significant amounts of practice. Some lucky people are blessed with an innate vision, but talent only takes somebody so far. Hard work takes over long before the payoff, and the road to success is littered with many an extremely talented individual who stopped when the going got hard.
 
I think one think that often gets overlooked when it comes to film making is that it's a collaborative effort. With technology advancing the way it has yes it is easier to try and do everything yourself but I feel that that will only get you so far. Say I'm great at directing actors and a scene but don't have advanced technical knowledge on cinematography. Instead of trying to balance directing, cinematography, editing, etc. and trying to learn these processes in depth why not just bring someone onboard who's a master in that realm. You see the big names like Nolan, Speilberg, etc. but don't forget that there are teams behind these people all working together to make these visions come to life. So with that said find what you are good at and learn and work that angle to the fullest and become an expert at it (make sure you have at least a medium level understanding of all the other processes as well tho) and outsource the areas you aren't an expert in to people who do (or at least starting up find equally dedicated people who are willing to build, learn, and grow with you)
 
I think its both as most mentioned. People who have natural talent or gifted can get things done quicker and faster. Its easier for them. They just have the eye. While others, like myself, it takes more
work for us to get there and longer time. But we can get there..... Having something unique that gives you a 'trademark' is what i like more then even just 'skills'. Something that makes your work stick out in some
way from the rest of the talented field. You have to find your thing and go from there.

stefancolson said:
The more you invest in learning and working on your craft, the faster you will get good. It takes roughly 10,000 hours of focused practice to master anything, which means 2.5 hours of serious practice a day will get you to a point of serious skill in about 10 years. If you can put 10 hours a day into your craft, then you can get really good in a few years. There is no shortcut to mastery, you can only gain skill through doing.

That practice also has to be focused. If you are just waving a camera around without much thought, or if you are just shooting tons of coverage with the hopes of piecing something together in the edit, then you really aren't working on your skills. You need to really concentrate on what you are doing with a definite goal in mind. You can't just say "I want better XXX" (framing, lighting, focus, performances from actors, etc) and keep working the same way, you need to analyze what's good and bad about your projects and compare them to projects that you admire. You always need to be working with a specific goal in mind, and you always need to be critical of your work.

That being said, another big obstacle to achieving real success in a field is getting discouraged. We all make terrible films when we start out (at least in a technical sense), and it's very important to remain optimistic and positive in the face of failure. Failures will come and go, and you will experience many on your road to success. Most people who begin this path will give up before getting to far, or just don't realize or aren't willing to put as much of themselves into the endeavor as is required.

In short, hard work and consistent, FOCUSED practice is the secret to everything in life. Prodigy is a myth (every 8 year old violin prodigy has spent 6 years playing the violin 8+ hours a day which equals about 12,000 hours of practice) and hard work can get you there. Never give up and keep working hard on specific goals and you'll be there in no time.
Click to expand...

This should be a sticky. I like the number crunching. Not just 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration.
 
Fly-catchers said:
So perhaps the answer is just keep filming at every opportunity and them see what you can do in the editing stage.
Click to expand...

There's no harm in messing around, but I wouldn't do this all that much. It's a pretty good way to develop bad habits. If narrative filmmaking is what you want to do, then you need to be shooting and editing with purpose. You should be planning both the shoot and the edit to go hand-in-hand. Effective filmmaking is about preparedness and efficiency; getting yourself accustomed to shooting all kinds of things just because you can, and then training yourself to try to make sense of it only when editing, is not a good groove to be in.

Not to mention that cinematography itself is about creating shots with purpose. You can experiment to see what things do, but if you don't get yourself into having reasons to do things, then your learning will be limited.
 
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