Are you a sucker for SUPER high-end cables?

MattinSTL

MattinSTL

Sound Modulator
Is this topic okay or is it gonna' cause trouble? If so then please accept my apologies and delete it... maybe my title is harsh... I meant it like the way people might say, "I'm a sucker for a great pair of legs..." but it doesn't read that way.

Basically I'm wondering if we still have people among us that think they can hear a difference in two different NEW cables? I always suggest Canare StarQuad and Neutrik connectors... but that's for the cable's longevity and guaranteed performance... and flexibility (they're soft AND durable). Neutrik connectors are super-nice also...

As I'm working my way through the taper's forums (since I recently got the bug to try double sound... thanks for the headaches tigeba... I always thought the DVX audio couldn't be improved and then you posted that file and :huh: now I'm shopping recorders)... so anyway I can't believe how many tapers still think cables make a big difference in sound!

I used to be a FREAK for sound... even more then I am now... and I'm nuts now. 10 years ago I read reviews on CABLES... and I thought, "WOW... so with the Indigo I'll hear more air around the performers... I can't wait to get those." Then I would SAVE up for a pair of $300 speaker cables! WTF :grin: ... yeah and believe it or not... there are STILL people who are putting big bucks into cables! Not big bucks as in a StarQuad for $30... I mean big as in HUNDREDS of dollars for cables!

I have a local friend who I've known since back in the day when I thought that act wasn't worthy of being committed... and to quote him, "I could line up a row of lode-stone so that each piece was touching all the way to your speakers and then run your cable to the other speaker and I'll bet you can't pick 'em apart in blind A/B test."

You know what? In my opinion my friend was right. The more exposure you get to professional environments the more you see the STANDARDS that the musicians go by. Eric friggin' Clapton 'aint using a $300 cable to amp his guitar... and the sound guy isn't connecting the gear with one either.

Well I thought this was a fun rant... but as usual I'm open to being flipped on my ear... so if you think I'm wrong about this then let's hammer it out and have fun doing it!:cheesy:

I enjoy a good debate as long as we're still friends at the end.
 
Oh MY GOD Oleg... you absolutely made my day with that one!:laugh:

I'm screaming laughing... People are so gullible it's nuts. Have you ever seen "Life of Brian"... I kind of think that's probably how it all happened.

There's enough people out there that can talk themselves into believing anything.

So am I nuts to always push people to StarQuad and Neutrik? I don't think so 'cause the cables last long and they're a joy to use... plus I don't think $30 is crazy money for something functional.

Ironically enough I've got a bunch of old threads around where I'm bragging up the L-4E6S cable that Filmtools used to make my Canare cables... and a bunch of people jumped on me saying I should have got StarQuad. I was like, "Oh I didn't know... but these look really good, thanks!"

Now that I've been around a bit I finally used somebody's StarQuad cable... You know what was printed every foot along the length? "L-4E6S"... ha!:cheesy:
 
Don't forget the copper discs under all your gear so that it is in harmony with nature.

In all seriousness, I really dig Neutrik connectors over switchcraft and I always recommend them to anyone that asks. They are much easier to work with when you are soldering. When I did the cable in my studio, I did Neutrik connectors on everything and I used foil shield cable for all the stuff that was run in conduit. I can't remember the brand of cable that I used right off the top of my head, but it was high quality, and I got a decent price for a spool of 1000' (Somewhere around 250$?, I can't remember the price).

I think about the most absurd thing I have ever seen is Gold Plated Monster OPTICAL TOSLink cables. I mean, WTF? Do people actually fall for that crap?
 
tigeba said:
Don't forget the copper discs under all your gear so that it is in harmony with nature.

I think about the most absurd thing I have ever seen is Gold Plated Monster OPTICAL TOSLink cables. I mean, WTF? Do people actually fall for that crap?
Click to expand...

In a word, yes.

Okay so this thread might be even more fun then I thought it would be. I hope we don't offend some guy with Kimber Kable or something nuts. I used to go to CES in Chicago every year... and in a hotel next to the McCormick Center you could check out REALLY high-end stuff if you had a vendor pass. I'm standing there LISTENING TO CABLES in a referrence setup. We're talking $250K speakers AND UP. What goes through your mind in that moment?

Well I couldn't help thinking how much I'd like to work for the guy who's trying to decide between a set of $1700 speaker cables and a set of $3000 cables. I wonder if the guy in that company is looking to outsource more workers from India so he won't have to decide on stuff like that next time?

10 years ago I got The Absolute Sound and Stereophile every month for a few years. I had a home system made up entirely of B and C grade recommended components. My system did sound good and it was nuts... but still only about $3K since I know everybody in the business. Anyway... back in that time there was ONE thing which totally snapped me out of it.

A writer at Stereophile said that he could hear a difference in his amp once he loosened the screws holding down the top-plate on the amp case. Yeah, you heard me right. That was like the striking moment... In a certain form of Japanese Zen meditation the sensei/guru (don't know the exact term) wanders through the meditating group and suddenly SMACKS somebody on the back with a piece of broken bamboo... the idea is that this frightening burst of energy "blasts" your mind into sudden enlightenment.

That's how I felt in the moment I read about loosening the screws on my equipment.

So I put down the Kool-Aid and walked out the door... and I've NEVER looked back.
 
Oh my God Oleg (again)... I just noticed that those "cradles" are $68.00 EACH and you need one per foot of cable!

Wow... that may very well be the new rip-off champion.:huh:
 
I need to wire up three mics, each about about 30 feet away. My order for $5100 is already in. I hope I hear the difference...

;-)

Marius
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The cables in my studio are isolated from the floor with an advanced polyvinyl structural suspension system. While my source has to remain secret, I understand you can construct an inferior DIY version using 3" PVC pipe!
 
oh.. I wish this thread came out earlier..... I had cable decisions last month.... and I think I over paid.... my speaks cost only 200(BX5)-love them, but my cables cost 70.... dam! I knew I should've gotten the 15-20 bucks ones. By the way the ones I got are moster studiolink cables. will they really be the same as say horizon 10 bucks cables?
 
Cables are a *huge* profit center for vendors. Monster refers to the monster profit on the cables. You don't want to get cables with crappy connectors, but with good connectors and decent gauge wire, any cable will get the job done. As a consumer, it's tough because some place only stock overpriced cables, so you just have to say no thanks.

Matt--I'm sort of wondering how squeezing an extra few db of S/N with double sound is going to help if you end up strapping your mic on-camera. :)
 
When I'm shooting anything on-cam I won't be using the MicroTrack... but to give a brief background:

I thought I'd be really clever and get the Sound Devices MM-1 so I could monitor and phantom power a wireless boom with the plug-on from a Sennheiser G2 (which didn't already supply phantom)... and guess what? While passable for some use the sound SUCKED!:embarasse

I used to have a Lectro plug-on and it ALSO sucked the soul out of any good mic you'd stick on it. For whatever reason condenser mics (besides lavs) don't like going wireless.

Lavs on bodypacks? Fine!

Shotguns, hypers, cardioids, etc on plug-ons? Forget it! The plug-on is ONLY good for stick mics... if you care about sound quality.

So all my blathering on about the MicroTrack isn't about squeezing out a few db... it's about turning the idea of wireless booming (and maintaining the quality I get running mics wired to the DVX) into a viable option. The SN of wireless systems can be decent, but in real world use the companding and whatever else happens just turns an otherwise great mic into a crappy one. Sure it'll still get the job done, but when you listen to my zombie flick and think "boy for a guy who's into sound this SUCKS"... you can draw your own conclusions.:thumbdown I think it's right after the first person get's killed that I switched to shotgun on-cam... and you can instantly hear the improvement.

I got the MM-1 on the day before shooting and I had the G2 for a few weeks... and I put a D230 stick mic on the G2 plug-on and thought, "hmm... not bad!"... since I had no way to try out a phantom mic I ordered the SD... fully expecting it to take care of phantom and the G2 to send an excellent signal (in close range). No dice.

The MicroTrack has -100db SN for mic/line in and there's no wireless BS to complicate the situation.

So there you are with your excellent boom mic overhead and the MicroTrack in your pocket and the shot's getting framed from 30' away... you can command all the action you want with no worry of obstacles and the $1K shotgun that sounded GOOD plugged into your DVX and sounded CRAP running through a wireless now sounds BETTER then either. :happy:

So I think that's a pretty good deal for $349. Which happens to be the same price I paid for the MM-1 in hopes of getting this result anyway.

Don't think of it as double sound... think of it as "at least as good as my mics sound plugged into the DVX" with no wires involved.:beer:

As Dave Fisk pointed out... there are alternatives that will sound about as good as the MicroTrack option... and those choices will save you the headache of sync'ing audio to video in POST... but I don't have $5K to spend!:shocked:
 
fdsa said:
oh.. I wish this thread came out earlier..... I had cable decisions last month.... and I think I over paid.... my speaks cost only 200(BX5)-love them, but my cables cost 70.... dam! I knew I should've gotten the 15-20 bucks ones. By the way the ones I got are moster studiolink cables. will they really be the same as say horizon 10 bucks cables?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. I was mainly having fun with the idea of $300 cables (on up).

I still have a few expensive monstercables from my bygone days of listening to air around performers... and they were nicely made. I actually gave away LOTS of the semi-expensive cables I had. The most expensive interconnects were Monster Interlink 400's that were fat as your pointer finger and cost me (at a discount) around $95 for a pair of 18" cables! :huh:

The Indigo cables that I joked about? I really bought those and still have 'em.:grin:

I can't remember the name off-hand... I just remember that they have four solid wires in each cable because the high-frequencies get muddied in the extra surface area which eventually oxidizes in normal stranded cables. :grin: :huh:
 
Matt--I'm just yanking your chain a little. I think the MicroTrack looks like a great solution--the same way folks use MD recorders--only without the hassles and drawbacks of MD. I'm looking forward to your evaluation of the MicroTrack because I wouldn't mind using one for the same reasons. Plus, it would be nice to use it in the field to collect walla and fx.
 
Barry_S said:
Cables are a *huge* profit center for vendors. Monster refers to the monster profit on the cables.
Click to expand...


This is not all that true. I don't sell crappy cables at all, so I can't speak for places like Guitar Center that do. On the high end cables that I deal with, we may make an average of only a few bucks per cable. Not even 15%, which is crap. Now, I would imagine that a place like Guitar Center would sell more of the lower end cables, and I would bet a 25 ft crappy cable doesn't cost them more than $4-$6, and they'll sell it for at least $10, which still isn't much, but when you add up the volume they do, it can end up being a large number.

As far as being a sucker for high quality cables....I'm not really a sucker for, as much as I'm well educated about what makes a good cable, and what makes a crap cable. I have actually done some testing on my pro tools system at home, and I found that the cables I made using canare quad cable vs. a crappy, un-named low end cabe, sounded better. Yes, I could hear the difference. Enough of a difference that it made me build all my own cables as opposed to buying cheap garbage just to save a few bucks.

-Dave
 
It would probably be a matter of what the cost justification is, i.e. simplified:

99.000% quality = $2
99.900% quality = $3
99.990% quality = $20
99.995% quality = $200
99.996% quality = $5000

Well, you get the picture...

Cheers,
Marius
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As a followup to my earlier post, I wired my studio with Gepco 5596EZ. It is good stuff, and not absurdly priced.
 
I think we're talking about "audiophile" cables, not good quality working audio cables like Canare with Neutriks. And yes, the markup is insanely high on those cables.

Dave_Fisk said:
This is not all that true. I don't sell crappy cables at all, so I can't speak for places like Guitar Center that do. On the high end cables that I deal with, we may make an average of only a few bucks per cable. Not even 15%, which is crap. Now, I would imagine that a place like Guitar Center would sell more of the lower end cables, and I would bet a 25 ft crappy cable doesn't cost them more than $4-$6, and they'll sell it for at least $10, which still isn't much, but when you add up the volume they do, it can end up being a large number.

As far as being a sucker for high quality cables....I'm not really a sucker for, as much as I'm well educated about what makes a good cable, and what makes a crap cable. I have actually done some testing on my pro tools system at home, and I found that the cables I made using canare quad cable vs. a crappy, un-named low end cabe, sounded better. Yes, I could hear the difference. Enough of a difference that it made me build all my own cables as opposed to buying cheap garbage just to save a few bucks.

-Dave
Click to expand...
 
Yeah... just to clarify... I'm not talking about Hoya versus Canare here... I'm talking about Canare versus Acoustic Zen Interconnects at $1,000 for a 3' pair.

There is also comedy in spending too little on something that isn't that pricey anyway.

I'm of the opinion that Canare StarQuad is the least expensive cable a person should buy... but I also think it's pretty close to the most expensive cable a person should buy.

When it comes down to it get whatever makes you happy... I just think it's funny when people buy EITHER junk, OR eccentric little niche products that fall somewhere between "audio jewelry" and "magic wand lube".:cheesy:
 
MattinSTL said:
I'm of the opinion that Canare StarQuad is the least expensive cable a person should buy... but I also think it's pretty close to the most expensive cable a person should buy.
Click to expand...


This is spot on.
 
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