Are "investors" a joke?

subtleinspiration said:
Well, I really an interested in Barry's advice of partnering with a 501C3, as it allows people to get something back with their donations (i.e. tax break). If you could pull off such a partnership, I think that'd be great! I just don't see people donating any significant amount of money if they don't get to take it off their taxes.
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I agree, it makes a huge difference to the individual being solicited. It does guarantee them something of a "return of their investment", at least to the degree that whatever their tax bracket is.

And this is what makes Section 181 of the IRS tax code so interesting -- it lets investors take that same tax break on their investment. So they get 100% tax deductibility, as well as getting ownership and profit participation.

Another nice thing about a group like Fractured Atlas is that they're set up to take credit card donations, so they make it easy for the potential donor to participate.
 
Chamber005 said:
The Guild, an internet-based show that's now sponsored by Sprint and is the only property Microsoft has ever picked up for its Independent line of downloadable video content made it's entire first season solely by soliciting donations.
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True - but the Guild started out being paid out of pocket, built a loyal fanbase, and then started soliciting donations from its audience (which didn't cover the costs for the show, as far as I know).

Had she started out trying to solicit donations from step one, I doubt she would have gotten far.

Not saying that donations aren't a viable way to go - but as a first step, without something to show, it's going to be a tough road no matter which fundraising road you decide to take.
 
Barry_Green said:
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Agreed. But the point is, it's in no way illegal. You absolutely can structure things in such a way that you can comply with the law. Impractical, perhaps, but not illegal. Film investment solicitation is done all the time, and if you comply with the laws it's a perfectly legit way to go, and can result in raising millions of dollars for independent film. But only if the plan and individual track records justify such an investment.
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Right, and that's what I see so many people running into here -- the catch 22 of, "How can I have experience for the job if I'm fresh out of college and have no experience?"

This is 100% for the guys looking to do that first or second feature. Maybe they've done some shorts and have (just barely if at all) made their money back. Maybe right now they have 10K saved up and know that they can get their movie done for 50K. Those people, I think, should potentially follow some of your advice regarding the cooperation with a non-profit or can just get up, review their local state laws, hopefully set up their film's LLC and start pounding the pavement and dialing for dollars with a sound pitch regarding their film and its issue-specific intentions.

I guess I'm always about mobilizing people on these boards! LOL I just feel like the "I have no funds or experience and so can't get experience or funding" query has been posed so much, it's time to give people real solutions that they can enact RIGHT NOW, whether they're 15 or 35. They can get what they need to make that micro-budget movie happen.
 
For our first feature, donations are the only way to go. To be frank, investors for a first feature are usually donating anyway, because the chances of ever seeing their money again are next to 0. It's just a lot more paperwork and expense for the prod company to use investors.

But we have the very solid mantra for the first time out: Make it cheap and make it with money you don't have to pay back. With the massive changes occurring in distribution models, we want the freedom to try many different things.

And if we can, we will do the same for the next three in our slate.

We are about 1/3 funded now through donations.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
True - but the Guild started out being paid out of pocket, built a loyal fanbase, and then started soliciting donations from its audience (which didn't cover the costs for the show, as far as I know).

Had she started out trying to solicit donations from step one, I doubt she would have gotten far.

Not saying that donations aren't a viable way to go - but as a first step, without something to show, it's going to be a tough road no matter which fundraising road you decide to take.
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Absolutely. Agree 100%. However The Guild also did all of its soliciting online. I wouldn't be surprised if Felicia Day couldn't have raised the same amount of money if she would have picked up the phone or had knocked on doors with fliers -- though I'm sure it wouldn't have been as fun! ;)

Face to face sales, IMO, has such a STRENGTH because you can actually show up with art work related to the piece. And heck, let's say you get into someone's house who is interested in your film -- they're interested because they too would like to someday work on film. Well maybe you get to know them and they turn into a PRODUCER. I'm relatively certain that you can offer people a producer credit on your film as an aspect of their donation. The bottom line is that you're talking to and meeting hundreds or even thousands of people over the course of trying to finance your film. You never know who you might meet, what relationships you might develop. Heck, one of the people whose door you knock on might end up being your lead actress or sound guy!

The point is, selling not only creates wealth and opprotunity, it also helps to establish a network that would not have existed had you just sat on the sidelines.

And you know how many door-to-door salesmen there are left in this world? You know how many door-to-door filmmaker fundraisers there are? People give guys playing a saxaphone BADLY on the sidewalk five bucks when it's snowing -- what do you think they're going to say to you, all bundled and blushing?

People ADMIRE salespeople because they either A) Fear them or B) Are inspired by their determination and refusal to accept "No" as an answer. Even a person who reviles telemarketers does so because they are intimidated by them. And ESPECIALLY if you are a young person, people, like me, will gladly donate a little cash to your cause. If a 19 year old kid came to my door right now in the blistering cold and had some art work to show me on a film he was doing, I'd gladly throw him some cash or go to his site and use my credit card. Forget what people tell you about selling yourself and your product -- there is no better PROOF that you are responsible for and committed to seeing your project through to the end than by putting fear aside and approaching a complete stranger for help. You can bank on it. ;)
 
I think you should follow these steps to get rich and fund your own film.

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I AGREE
 
Also, Barry, the INK people have investors. True, they are ONE of them, but they say they did get some investors out of their short film, SPIN, which is also very good. But they also say that their investors are all entrepreneurs an are kind of more invested in the filmmakers' success and careers than they are in making a buck. So they are pretty patient with the whole pirating thing as a result.

So that's I think something else important to look for. People who believe in what you're doing. This might be your rich friends, but it might also be people interested in the topic you're making the movie about.
 
Well, yes, the simple fact is -- most people don't want to invest in a project. They want to invest in someone who is going to make lots of projects. They like to find people they believe in, and facilitate their success, and take the ride with them.

If you have no personality, no discernible skills, no passion, and nothing else to recommend you, it'll be very very difficult to get someone to invest in you. If you NEED the investor's help, then there's very little chance you'll get it. But if you're gonna make it anyway, hell or high water, and the investor sees that and recognizes that, then they'll be far more likely to take a chance on you.
 
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